D&D 5E Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery is officially the most powerful feature.

[Hohige]

It's the strongest mage killer combo ever.

The Aberrant Mind restrains the enemy caster as an action and cast a psionic quickend spell as bonus action (Impossible to counterspell). The enemy can't move and can't cast spells (Subtle Counterspell).
It's charisma check with Magical Guidance vs Mage's STR. lol.
Easy.

 

[Ovinomancer]

It's the strongest mage killer combo ever.

View attachment 128782

The Aberrant Mind restrains the enemy caster as an action and cast a psionic quickend spell as bonus action (Impossible to counterspell). The enemy can't move and can't cast spells (Subtle Counterspell).
It's charisma check with Magical Guidance vs Mage's STR. lol.
Easy.

Let's assume you've hidden -- you cast a 5th level spell subtly and use telekinesis at a range of 60 feet. This is because you cannot both use subtle and distant at the same time. So, you do, but you have a +3 to CHA and let's say the other guy has a -1 to STR, giving you a 4 point difference. That's still only a 66% chance of success. Let's say you do it, though, and the target is restrained. You're now done, because you can't case a quickened psionic spell because using a bonus action to cast limits you to only casting a cantrip otherwise. You've cast a 5th level spell, so that's out. Still well and good. The enemy may not try to cast a spell, which you can subtly counterspell with a 3rd level slot. Provided the spell isn't a higher level than 3rd, you succeed. If it is higher than 3rd, your +3 CHA will hurt a bit as you'll need an 11 minimum on the die (for a 4th level spell), which is only a 50% chance. So, first round done, you're down a 5th slot and a 3rd slot, 2 sorcery points for subtle, and perhaps another for a use of magic guidance. Let's say not, so 2 down. You've done no damage.

So, next turn, you maintain concentration on telekinesis and reup the restraint as an action. Another 66% chance, which means you're likely to have used magical guidance at this point because you have about a 50/50 chance of having failed (slightly better). So, now you're down 3 sorcery points. You then cast a quickened psionic spell, let's say Mind Thrust, at 2nd level. That's 2 sorcery points for Mind Thrust and 2 for quickened spell. You can do this because you just maintained Telekinesis instead of casting it. You've done some damage, finally! Unfortunately, it's likely the wizard has saved, as INT is his prime stat and he's proficient, so against your DC 15 he has +8 or +9 to save. Still, it's half of 3d8, so marks on the board! You're now down 7 sorcery points. The mage goes, and casts a spell, which you subtly counter, for another 3rd level slot and a sorcery point. That's 8 -- running low.

Next turn, you try mostly the same thing -- concentrate on telekinesis and throw a spell. This mind thrust succeeds! The wizard fails their check, but they're okay because they still have hitpoints left. They choose to keep an action for next turn. You're now tapped on sorcery points, having spent another 2 on that quickened mind thrust. Now, when the wizard casts and you counterspell, you cannot use subtle, so you reveal yourself in casting. The wizard is down three countered spell slots, and you're tapped on sorcery points, down 3 3rd level slots and 1 5th. You've done 4.5d8 damage to the wizard, which hasn't brought him below half. You're going to have to start upcasting counterspells and it's likely that the wizard won't be restrained next round as you can't magical guidance yourself. You'll have to cast normally next round to use your bonus action to convert a slot for points. And the wizard can counter that casting unless you're converting and then casting psionically, which is a great way to burn your points and be stuck in the same loop. Regardless, the wizard can see you now and can cast whatever they want (restrained doesn't prevent spellcasting) and counter your counters because you don't have the sorcery points to make them subtle as often. The wizard now has an edge in available slots -- they've spent less than you have, especially since you now will be bonus action converting more slots into sorcery points.

It's a neat trick, but it's unsustainable and so really only useful in limited cases. If you want to switch to a neat enchantment spell against the wizard, perhaps a suggestion or a charm or a dominate (which is your other 5th level slot), you certainly can, but the wizard is immediately free of telekinesis when you drop concentration, which means you've largely wasted a 5th level slot to begin with. And, if you dominate the wizard, cool but it's likely to get advantage on a proficient saving throw against your poor DC (again, DC 15).

Even if you game out a situation where you get your perfect setup and things largely go your way, this isn't overwhelming at all -- you burn a huge amount of resources for about 20 damage. At the end of that, you're not hidden, completely empty on sorcery points, and down more slots than the other guy. You're now in the action economy crunch -- you have more things you have to do to maintain effectiveness than the other guy. Even if you swap to straight blasting at this point, it's a race where you're out of your tricks and the other guy hasn't even brought his subclass abilities to bear yet. Heck, if the other guy is a Diviner, this sinks almost from the get-go.

 

[Hohige]

Let's assume you've hidden -- you cast a 5th level spell subtly and use telekinesis at a range of 60 feet. This is because you cannot both use subtle and distant at the same time. So, you do, but you have a +3 to CHA and let's say the other guy has a -1 to STR, giving you a 4 point difference. That's still only a 66% chance of success. Let's say you do it, though, and the target is restrained. You're now done, because you can't case a quickened psionic spell because using a bonus action to cast limits you to only casting a cantrip otherwise. You've cast a 5th level spell, so that's out. Still well and good. The enemy may not try to cast a spell, which you can subtly counterspell with a 3rd level slot. Provided the spell isn't a higher level than 3rd, you succeed. If it is higher than 3rd, your +3 CHA will hurt a bit as you'll need an 11 minimum on the die (for a 4th level spell), which is only a 50% chance. So, first round done, you're down a 5th slot and a 3rd slot, 2 sorcery points for subtle, and perhaps another for a use of magic guidance. Let's say not, so 2 down. You've done no damage.

So, next turn, you maintain concentration on telekinesis and reup the restraint as an action. Another 66% chance, which means you're likely to have used magical guidance at this point because you have about a 50/50 chance of having failed (slightly better). So, now you're down 3 sorcery points. You then cast a quickened psionic spell, let's say Mind Thrust, at 2nd level. That's 2 sorcery points for Mind Thrust and 2 for quickened spell. You can do this because you just maintained Telekinesis instead of casting it. You've done some damage, finally! Unfortunately, it's likely the wizard has saved, as INT is his prime stat and he's proficient, so against your DC 15 he has +8 or +9 to save. Still, it's half of 3d8, so marks on the board! You're now down 7 sorcery points. The mage goes, and casts a spell, which you subtly counter, for another 3rd level slot and a sorcery point. That's 8 -- running low.

Next turn, you try mostly the same thing -- concentrate on telekinesis and throw a spell. This mind thrust succeeds! The wizard fails their check, but they're okay because they still have hitpoints left. They choose to keep an action for next turn. You're now tapped on sorcery points, having spent another 2 on that quickened mind thrust. Now, when the wizard casts and you counterspell, you cannot use subtle, so you reveal yourself in casting. The wizard is down three countered spell slots, and you're tapped on sorcery points, down 3 3rd level slots and 1 5th. You've done 4.5d8 damage to the wizard, which hasn't brought him below half. You're going to have to start upcasting counterspells and it's likely that the wizard won't be restrained next round as you can't magical guidance yourself. You'll have to cast normally next round to use your bonus action to convert a slot for points. And the wizard can counter that casting unless you're converting and then casting psionically, which is a great way to burn your points and be stuck in the same loop. Regardless, the wizard can see you now and can cast whatever they want (restrained doesn't prevent spellcasting) and counter your counters because you don't have the sorcery points to make them subtle as often. The wizard now has an edge in available slots -- they've spent less than you have, especially since you now will be bonus action converting more slots into sorcery points.

It's a neat trick, but it's unsustainable and so really only useful in limited cases. If you want to switch to a neat enchantment spell against the wizard, perhaps a suggestion or a charm or a dominate (which is your other 5th level slot), you certainly can, but the wizard is immediately free of telekinesis when you drop concentration, which means you've largely wasted a 5th level slot to begin with. And, if you dominate the wizard, cool but it's likely to get advantage on a proficient saving throw against your poor DC (again, DC 15).

Even if you game out a situation where you get your perfect setup and things largely go your way, this isn't overwhelming at all -- you burn a huge amount of resources for about 20 damage. At the end of that, you're not hidden, completely empty on sorcery points, and down more slots than the other guy. You're now in the action economy crunch -- you have more things you have to do to maintain effectiveness than the other guy. Even if you swap to straight blasting at this point, it's a race where you're out of your tricks and the other guy hasn't even brought his subclass abilities to bear yet. Heck, if the other guy is a Diviner, this sinks almost from the get-go.

Before the battle: 6 Sorcery Point for Psionic Distant Telekinesis while Stealth, bonus action: Convert Slot for Sorcery Point.
So, It can burst the wizard pretty easily.
The battle starts after it.


You made a fundamental mistake.
Subtle and Distant works. This is called Distant Psionic Spell.
So, It's 120 '.

Also, Quicken and Subtle Spell works. It's called Quicken Psionic Spell.
This is the power of the Psionic Sorcery Feature.


It can use his action each turn to restrain his enemy at 120ft and still quicken a psionic spell without reveal himself.


To defeat The Wizard. Just spam distant Psionic Snaptic Static at 240ft.
When It comes 120ft(If survives). Restrain him and Its over.
Subtle Earth Eruption, Heightein Psionic Dominate person, its a lot options.
Its easy.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Before the battle: 6 Sorcery Point for Psionic Distant Telekinesis while Stealth, bonus action: Convert Slot for Sorcery Point.
So, It can burst the wizard pretty easily.
The battle starts after it.


You made a fundamental mistake.
Subtle and Distant works. This is called Distant Psionic Spell.
So, It's 120 '.

Also, Quicken and Subtle Spell works. It's called Quicken Psionic Spell.
This is the power of the Psionic Sorcery Feature.


It can use his action each turn to restrain his enemy at 120ft and still quicken a psionic spell without reveal himself.


To defeat The Wizard. Just spam distant Psionic Snaptic Static at 240ft.
When It comes 120ft(If survives). Restrain him and Its over.
Subtle Earth Eruption, Heightein Psionic Dominate person, its a lot options.
Its easy.

Ah, so you're giving up being able to counterspell? Range for counterspell is 60ft, so you can either reveal yourself and distant it or stay hidden and forgo it.

And, your opening means your down one more spell slot for about the same position, perhaps up to full sorcery points. However, you now will be spending more points for many spells due to the need to distant them, which removes your ability to quicjen then, so you can either let telekinesis go or move closer, which may not be an option while remaining hidden.

In other words, I put together a best case above, your idea of distant telekenisis is actually worse -- you have fewer options and are forced to go loud faster, which makes the telekinesis opening a complete waste of resources.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I'm confused. Does this dude think he can cast lvl 8 spells using 8 sorc points? Because I would pay good money to see a player try to make that case to a DM. That would be hillarious.

A D&D stream in which players try to bring optimized characters in front of a tough-as-nails by-the-book DM and have to convince them that the characters should be allowed would be $$$

 

[BacchusNL]

A D&D stream in which players try to bring optimized characters in front of a tough-as-nails by-the-book DM and have to convince them that the characters should be allowed would be $$$

Yeah for sure, I would watch that . But there is optimising and then there is breaking the game by disregarding basic rules.
Watching a Hexblade-Paladin-Sorceror tearing stuff up can be fun. Watching him argue with the DM wether or not his lvl 6 spell slots should break the paladin smite hard-cap; not so much.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

So, long time lurker, but I wanted to mention on the Psionic Spell and upcasting discussion, that unless it actually states you can use additional points to cast it in a higher level "slot", then you probably can't given precedence from the monk. Both Way of Elements and Way of the Sun Soul have it actually mentioned in the text for the ability that you can do this.

 

[Maxperson]

So, long time lurker, but I wanted to mention on the Psionic Spell and upcasting discussion, that unless it actually states you can use additional points to cast it in a higher level "slot", then you probably can't given precedence from the monk. Both Way of Elements and Way of the Sun Soul have it actually mentioned in the text for the ability that you can do this.

Right. @Hohige's claim of specific beats general fails because there is no specific language allowing him to do what he claims.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

Yah, I know people already have pointed out the issue, I just wanted to bring up that we have seen a cast with points ability before that did have that specific wording, since I didn't see anyone else point it out, unless I missed it.

 

[Crit]

Hi! I made an account because I wanted to explain a feature, pertaining to that spell-slot sorcery-point upcasting thing like @Shadowedeyes did.

"When you cast any spell of 1st level or higher from your Psionic Spells feature, you can cast it by expending a spell slot as normal or by spending a number
of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level. If you cast the spell using sorcery points, it requires no verbal or somatic components, and it requires no
material components, unless they are consumed."
This is the rule as written in Tasha's.

"The spell's level" means the level of the spell itself, as they are when you get them. For example- "detect thoughts" is a second level spell, and always is. You can cast it with a higher spell slot, yes, but it's still a level two spell. It's only listed in its base form in the Aberrant Mind's spell list, so you can ONLY cast it at lvl 2 for 2 sorcery points because that's what AM's spell list gives you. Lvl 3 Detect Thoughts is NOT in your psionic spell list, so you can't use sorcery points for it. If you want to do something different than that, then you'd have to use spell slots. In other words- no lvl 8 spells for 8 points.

This is still a really good feature, but it's not overpowered. I like that you can save 2 sorcery points by using Psionic Sorcery instead of a 5th spell slot, it's cool. It's like I get a lvl 1 slot back just from casting a lvl 5.

To clarify for others, any spell cast with Psionic Sorcery automatically has no verbal or somatic components. For all intents and purposes, you cast a spell at discount AND get a free meta magic effect without actually using Subtle Spell. That's where @Hohige is coming from in that regard. It's also cool and helpful, but it doesn't revolutionize stealth casting or whatever.

I think Aberrant Mind has potential to be the Sorcerer subclass that can use meta magic and cast spells the most, through saving sorcery points on frequently cast spells in the Psionic Sorcery table. With that said, it's not THAT much more, especially to the point that you blow 8 points in 3 turns. The subclass's strength is efficient and sustainable casting- you could be an active caster throughout a whole adventuring day and still have resources by the end. Of course, you could also try and spend all of your points as fast as you can, but that's kind of wasting the class' main advantage.

An Aberrant Mind sorcerer, especially with Metamagic Adept, has a huge magic tool belt with which to work from. In theory, you'd have the most access to reaction spells like Shield and Absorb Elements amongst all casters across an adventure, or just use meta magic 15% more than others. It's sustainable, not invincible. I adore the subclass, but it's not appropriate to treat it like something it's not.

Personally, I made an Aberrant Mind Githyanki character with Shadow touched, and the amount of semi-free spells you can get is extremely fun. You really always have something to use between long rests, and this is where this subclass shines. (It's also fun because all of the spells have a similar enough theme for a telekinetic, but whatever).

@Hohige , I think your Aberrant Mind build would probably be more successful if you didn't waste time and resources on hiding. It has tactical advantage 1 on 1 (compared to a regular sorcerer build) with its effective extra meta magic and low-level spell slots, so get out of the semi-effective scouting shadows and just empower whichever low damage rolls you get.