Planescape Planescape to languish in purgatory?

[R_J_K75]

I find it very odd you seem to believe there are more specific mechanics involved in Dragonlance than Ravenloft.

Was there a whole lot of mechanics? IDR. But if I had to guess, I wouldnt think so.

 

[The Glen]

Problem a lot of the older setting have is the TSR messed up a lot of them with their setting nuke fetish that changed large chunks of what made people like them. The faction war would need to be fixed or at least retconned. Mystara got railroaded with Wrath of the Immortals. Greyhawk did after the ashes. Only the Realms constantly got nuked and people didn't mind it seems.

 

[tetrasodium]

• Ravenloft - Besides monsters I dont think much crunch is required and updated in CoS

A couple people have touched on it, but nobody has been too explicit about it. The 5e "ravenloft" depected in CoS is extremely faerunized. Ravenloft changes spells & class abilities in addition to doing things that make resting difficult to your mind to make any encounters of most any sort a bit more high stakes but 5e CoS basically ditched all of that because WotC has claasses balanced around the concept of 6-8 encounters per long rest with exactly two short rests in between along with what is basically instant full recovery of hp compared to prior editions. Yes 5e CoS takes place inside something that is dressed up like the Barovia Domain within Ravenloft... but it is not Ravenloft.. it mentions the dark powers/dark lords several times.... but the whole dark powers & dark lords thing is pretty much made out as something very different than it has always been so it would be a better fit for FR rather than accepting the mists take you somewhere horrible without warning that is notwhere you came from.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Thinking on the idea of Spell Keys that were often required to cast spells of different planes that restricted certain types of magic mostly, but maybe enhanced some in a few cases.

For 5e, I think in most cases magic shouldn't be restricted by the planes no Lower Planes restricting "good" spells from being cast (though 5e doesn't have much in the way of alignment for spells) or Cold spells being restricted in Hot Planes unless a Spell Key was used, or the no teleportation magic in Sigil rule that existed (because the Astral Plane didn't touch Sigil and the Astral Plane being connected to a Plane was a requirement in 2e). Those types of rules that Planescape had, should be scrapped for 5e.

Instead for Spell Keys it should be a special spellcasting focus that enhances a spell based on the nature of a plane. The still beating heart of someone you betrayed and murdered in Carceri, or a feather from the nest of a Roc on the top of a tree that's more one mile tall in the Beastlands and those kind of things being your typical special spellcasting focuses.

 

[Redwizard007]

There are no Dragonlance deities in Deities and Demigods or Rise of Tiamat. Takhisis is not Tiamat. She has a different personality, home, history and family. Paladine is not Bahamut.

Knights of Solamnia are not any different to various setting specific organisations that one might find in Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or indeed, Ravenloft. (Knight of the Shadows, for one). The various races of Ansalon are not really that "out there". Kender are hardly very mechanically different from halflings, draconians from dragonborn and minotaurs have already been statted up a few times in 5E already.

The mechanics for spellcasting in Krynn have been represented in various different ways over the years, but "moon magic" (which I assume is what you are referring to) requires little more than a page of information (as it had in 3E) and it is not even applicable to all casters in Krynn. (Sorcerers are not affected by the moons, nor bards, or "novice" or renegade mages). To be honest, it is best represented by a wizard subclass.

Ya know, I reread your response a half dozen times before I realized you originally specified DL deities, and you are correct, but seeing as how the novels post release made combat with the gods central to multiple storylines, it would be unconscionable to omit them in a DL specific product.

The rest of your post i strongly disagree with, but the above poster was right, its silly to argue what setting needs more support when id be happy to see any of the likely options.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

A couple people have touched on it, but nobody has been too explicit about it. The 5e "ravenloft" depected in CoS is extremely faerunized. Ravenloft changes spells & class abilities in addition to doing things that make resting difficult to your mind to make any encounters of most any sort a bit more high stakes but 5e CoS basically ditched all of that because WotC has claasses balanced around the concept of 6-8 encounters per long rest with exactly two short rests in between along with what is basically instant full recovery of hp compared to prior editions. Yes 5e CoS takes place inside something that is dressed up like the Barovia Domain within Ravenloft... but it is not Ravenloft.. it mentions the dark powers/dark lords several times.... but the whole dark powers & dark lords thing is pretty much made out as something very different than it has always been so it would be a better fit for FR rather than accepting the mists take you somewhere horrible without warning that is notwhere you came from.

I've explictly said in many previous threads on the topic that Curse of Strahd has little in common with the Ravenloft setting (setting that is, not I6), beyond a few place names and named NPCs.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Was there a whole lot of mechanics? IDR. But if I had to guess, I wouldnt think so.

Fear, Horror, Madness Checks, Power Checks, Darklord powers, changes to nearly every spell arcane and divine, changes to psionic powers, changes to character class abiltiies, changes to available character races, technology differences (firearms are much more common in Ravenloft) changes to languages (there is no "Common"), changes to magic items.

I could go on. Dragonlance is much more vanilla D&D than Ravenloft ever was.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Ya know, I reread your response a half dozen times before I realized you originally specified DL deities, and you are correct, but seeing as how the novels post release made combat with the gods central to multiple storylines, it would be unconscionable to omit them in a DL specific product.

The rest of your post i strongly disagree with, but the above poster was right, its silly to argue what setting needs more support when id be happy to see any of the likely options.

How exactly is "combat with the gods" central to the storyline? One character fights the gods, and that is defined as fairly unique and setting-shattering events. Dragons of Summer Flame has the deities and mortal alike battling Chaos - but he's not really a god. Much of the setting is defined on the absence of gods (pre Cataclysm, post-Cataclysm War of the Lance, and the first forty years of the Fifth Age).

Forgotten Realms has more deity battling and deity death - heck, Dragonlance doesn't even have what Greyhawk does - a demigod ruling one of the major nations. Outside of the godless settings (Dark Sun, Birthright, Mystara, Eberron (arguably)), Dragonlance has hardly any more interaction with the divine than the other settings do.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

The Knights of Solamnia would likely require an entirely different class, plus three subclasses. It would be very hard to add them to a fighter or paladin chassis. In a pinch, it could be done, but the subclasses required would require enough modification to the original class that it would probably take up a roughly equivalent amount of text as would adding an entirely new class anyway.

In the end, it's pretty obvious that both Ravenloft and Dragonlance would require significant rules modification to base 5e rules, and, unless both were to be published and we actually get a page count, it would be hard to determine which would need more. I'm not sure what material purpose an inter-setting peeing match over this matter serves in the end...

I really think you are overegging it here. Knights of the Crown are functionally identical to fighters in most editions. Knights of the Sword are pretty much paladins, and Knights of the Rose have some fear resistance on top of that. They were quite different in 1st and 2nd edition, mostly because the base classes are so limited, but with the variety between subclasses in 5th edition there is nothing in them which requires anything too radical. If cavaliers are a subclass of fighter, there's no reason that Crown, Sword and Rose can't be paladin oaths. and be done with it.

 

[tetrasodium]

Fear, Horror, Madness Checks, Power Checks, Darklord powers, changes to nearly every spell arcane and divine, changes to psionic powers, changes to character class abiltiies, changes to available character races, technology differences (firearms are much more common in Ravenloft) changes to languages (there is no "Common"), changes to magic items.

I could go on. Dragonlance is much more vanilla D&D than Ravenloft ever was.

Adding to this, no the rediculous "madness" table in the dmg is not even slightly relevant 5e CoS gets ravenloft so wrong that I'm not even sure where to begin with corrections other than maybe pointing at chapter3 of RCS & seeing what people are still mislead on.