D&D 5E WotC On Tasha, Race, Alignment: A Several-Year Plan

WotC spoke to the site Dicebreaker about D&D race and alignment, and their plans for the future. On of the motivations of the changes [character customization] in Tasha's Cauldron was to decouple race from class. The 'tightrope' between honouring legacy and freedom of character choice has not been effectively walked. Alignment is turning into a roleplaying tool, and will not be used to...

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WotC spoke to the site Dicebreaker about D&D race and alignment, and their plans for the future.

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  • On of the motivations of the changes [character customization] in Tasha's Cauldron was to decouple race from class.
  • The 'tightrope' between honouring legacy and freedom of character choice has not been effectively walked.
  • Alignment is turning into a roleplaying tool, and will not be used to describe entire cultures.
  • This work will take several years to fully implement.
 

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DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Do you really still play this way?
I think killing before knowing what's going on is an evil act, no matter how evil you think someone might be.
Righteous good Paladins that are judges and executioners at once often go down the evil route. They walk a very thin line between doing the right thing and overstepping the line. Hey, you can stop a lot of evil if you just do Genocide. Kill the Goblin toddlers so they won't grow up to become monsters.
Some examples are Athas of Warcraft 3, Anakin Skywalker, you surely find more.

I think a good start is removing xp from killing monsters. Instead grant themfor overcoming challenges. Winninng a fight by nonviolent means should give more xp than killing.
We were playing Keep on the Borderlands (Goodman version) and when our Tiefling Warlock hit 5th level and got fireball, he toasted an entire room of gnolls IIRC-- females and children included-- with his very first fireball. I tried to remind the players they would gain a bounty on the ones the captured and returned to the keep with, so they lost well over 100 gp because they fried all the gnolls. FWIW, the women and children would only have fought to protect themselves.
 

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Oofta

Legend
You are right it depends on a lot of factors. When I DM I put myself in the monster's POV. Would surrender likely save my life? What options do I have? Often, the PCs are there to kill me (as I see it), and rarely will they let me live--at best I'll just be killed later on, as where if I keep fighting maybe I can take them down? Also, many times when a monster gets low enough HP that retreat becomes an option, it is too late and another hit or two will kill them. Finally, with feats like Sentinel, the PCs flat-out refuse to let the bad guys escape so they might live to fight the PCs again later on. Why let your enemy live so they can try to kill you again later?

In short, unless the PCs actually have a reason that benefits them to keep an enemy alive, they won't--it is too risky. Like I said, YMMV, which is great, but that IME.

How realistic is it to surrender? I mean, at certain times and in certain cultures enemy soldiers would surrender because they knew they would be ransomed back. It was worth it to the victors to keep them alive.

On the other hand, most D&D campaigns I've seen it hasn't been much of an option. That demon surrenders? Okay ... great. What do you do with it? You can't put it in jail, it will just eat it's cell mates, assuming there even are jails. If you let it go it will just continue eating babies because that's what demons do. The harsh reality is that you often have little or no choice there is no realistic option, there are no jails and there is no punishment that is practical short of killing. Many D&D worlds are much harsher and judgement much more final than in modern society.
 

But it matters what justification you’re using. If it’s “some races are just born evil...” Well, you do you I guess, but to me, a world where that’s true does not sound like fun, and I don’t easily imagine myself getting along with someone to whom it did.
These words seem to be written quickly. Do gods exist, give magic powers, and hold some accountable in your campaigns? Or is religion just a placeholder for spells? Does the yuan-ti culture make most of them evil, like really evil, or are the majority of them misunderstood?

I get you can make your own world and the yuan-ti could be the good group. Or that there are outliers. But the point is, what is the difference between a yuan-ti, a mind flayer, a frost giant, or an orc. If it is racial (deemed from the gods) or cultural, it is all the same. How can you say you wouldn't get along at a table where those things are "table truths?" Does every sentient race in your campaign have a gray morality? If so, cool, but I don't see how you wouldn't get along with someone who plays a different way.
 
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DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
The harsh reality is that you often have little or no choice there is no realistic option, there are no jails and there is no punishment that is practical short of killing. Many D&D worlds are much harsher and judgement much more final than in modern society.
Yep.
 

"The harsh reality is that you often have little or no choice there is no realistic option, there are no jails and there is no punishment that is practical short of killing. Many D&D worlds are much harsher and judgement much more final than in modern society."

You could always just kill them first, have the trial afterwards with Speak With Dead or some divination spells, and then Raise Dead if they didn't deserve it.
 


DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
You could always just kill them first, have the trial afterwards with Speak With Dead or some divination spells, and then Raise Dead if they didn't deserve it.
First, Raise Dead (or even Speak With Dead) is not common in many games IME, but YMMV.

Second, who pays the 500 gp for the consumed diamond if the killer of the victim can't afford it? ;)
 

GreyLord

Legend
It is ironic, Gary Gygax predicted a similar problem decades ago. This is why he tried to make D&D and AD&D humanocentric.

His take was that the different "races" were actually more akin to different types of creatures or animals. Just like the nature of a wolf is to hunt and eat meat and normally whatever they are eating is a living creature that dies because they are doing it, creatures have inborn ways of feeling and doing things which generally most follow. Monsters, like Wolves, Sharks, Tigers, and other beasts were driven by things other than humans, and this also extended to what were referred to as different races in D&D.

Those who do not, are not the norm, but the exception. Even among humans, PC's were the exception in ability.

Thus, even the different races are not "human" and are not motivated or act in the same way. This also meant that those races had level limits and other restrictions because they were NOT human, nor did they have the same motivation to get that type of power or increase in ability that humans did.

However, people still played different D&D races as...humans. They were humans that were short, or humans that had pointy ears, etc. rather than creatures with a completely different mindset.

Instead of a Drow which viewed their way of life and culture as superior to any others...you had Drow which were basically human and had human values, instincts, motivations, and behavior.

By 3e, they attempted to make it so that many more races and creatures were viable to play...and almost all of them when played were played as humans. Want to play a Goblin, something that was supposed to be a fantastical monster from fantasy and mythology whose very nature sometimes was spawned by dark forces that created the world...sure...the player played it as a human with different colored skin and sharp teeth and...

Wait a second...

Now you have players playing humans that look a little different and have different colored skin that go under the name of a goblin...but is basically a human...and saying humans which look different as evil (because that is actually kind of a wrong type of thing to be doing...you can't just say a human is evil because they look different).

And it's continued to evolve till now there really is no difference between a player playing a different race and a player playing a human for many groups these days. When the only difference is really looks...defining an entire human race that calls itself Orcs, or goblins, or even Troglydites as Evil becomes VERY problematic...BECAUSE it is and SHOULD be problematic.

The change I think is because these things that used to be actual MONSTERS were changed in RPGs to actually be humans with different looks instead...and that changes the entire perspective of what is right or wrong in how they are categorized (alignment, etc) and how they are defined to act.

It becomes more problematic because you have more traditional players that still view what used to be monsters in RPGs AS the traditional monsters that had different origins, inspirations, and core creations than humans...which clash with other gamers who view these previously listed monsters NOT as monsters, but humans of a different mother/father/creator.

It's a really difficult line to walk between in order to please one group and not displease the other...but when you view other races as actually humans rather than creatures that are different on an instinctual level (like other beasts such as Wolves, Sharks, Crocodiles are different from humans) it IS problematic to label them or categorize them in certain ways as it comes to close to prejudice and discrimination and how they are presented in the real world.
 

If they can't afford the diamond, they were clearly guilty!

Probably because you took all their stuff when you killed them, but that's irrelevant!
 

It is ironic, Gary Gygax predicted a similar problem decades ago. This is why he tried to make D&D and AD&D humanocentric.

His take was that the different "races" were actually more akin to different types of creatures or animals. Just like the nature of a wolf is to hunt and eat meat and normally whatever they are eating is a living creature that dies because they are doing it, creatures have inborn ways of feeling and doing things which generally most follow. Monsters, like Wolves, Sharks, Tigers, and other beasts were driven by things other than humans, and this also extended to what were referred to as different races in D&D.

Those who do not, are not the norm, but the exception. Even among humans, PC's were the exception in ability.

Thus, even the different races are not "human" and are not motivated or act in the same way. This also meant that those races had level limits and other restrictions because they were NOT human, nor did they have the same motivation to get that type of power or increase in ability that humans did.

However, people still played different D&D races as...humans. They were humans that were short, or humans that had pointy ears, etc. rather than creatures with a completely different mindset.

Instead of a Drow which viewed their way of life and culture as superior to any others...you had Drow which were basically human and had human values, instincts, motivations, and behavior.

By 3e, they attempted to make it so that many more races and creatures were viable to play...and almost all of them when played were played as humans. Want to play a Goblin, something that was supposed to be a fantastical monster from fantasy and mythology whose very nature sometimes was spawned by dark forces that created the world...sure...the player played it as a human with different colored skin and sharp teeth and...

Wait a second...

Now you have players playing humans that look a little different and have different colored skin that go under the name of a goblin...but is basically a human...and saying humans which look different as evil because of that is actually kind of wrong.

And it's continued to evolve till now there really is no difference between a player playing a different race and a player playing a human for many groups these days. When the only difference is really looks...defining an entire human race that calls itself Orcs, or goblins, or even Troglydites as Evil becomes VERY problematic...BECAUSE it is and SHOULD be problematic.

The change I think is because these things that used to be actual MONSTERS were changed in RPGs to actually be humans with different looks instead...and that changes the entire perspective of what is right or wrong in how they are categorized (alignment, etc) and how they are defined to act.

It becomes more problematic because you have more traditional players that still view what used to be monsters in RPGs AS the traditional monsters that had different origins, inspirations, and core creations than humans...which clash with other gamers who view these previously listed monsters NOT as monsters, but humans of a different mother/father/creator.

It's a really difficult line to walk between in order to please one group and not displease the other...but when you view other races as actually humans rather than creatures that are different on an instinctual level (like other beasts such as Wolves, Sharks, Crocodiles are different from humans) it IS problematic to label them or categorize them in certain ways as it comes to close to prejudice and discrimination and how they are presented in the real world.
Gygax also thought Col. John Milton Chivington had the right of it, so I wouldn't trust his moral judgment.


 

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