D&D 5E A Shield spell that Scales

NotAYakk

Legend
Shield is an example of a spell that doesn't scale at all. For higher level casters, the cost is a cheap 1st level slot and your reaction. I wanted to see if I can make it a spell that scales with slot level a bit, so you have reason to use not-level-1 slots on it.

An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you, including against the trigger.

While this barrier is active you gain a +5 bonus to AC, have resistance against damage from all attacks, and are immune to damage from magic missile.

The barrier lasts either until the start of your next turn, or after you are attacked one additional time, whichever comes first.

At higher levels: For every spell slot higher than 1st used, the barrier lasts for up to one additional attack.
This spell no longer grants a +5 bonus to AC for all attacks. But it does grant resistance against damage from attacks that get through.

I suspect this spell is not as good as it used to be, but still strong. It was one of the strongest level 1 spells for a mid-high level caster (or a high AC gish), and now is just good not amazing for those purposes. On the other hand, you can use it to help soak a critical hit (or insanely high roll), unlike before.
 

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D1Tremere

Adventurer
Shield is an example of a spell that doesn't scale at all. For higher level casters, the cost is a cheap 1st level slot and your reaction. I wanted to see if I can make it a spell that scales with slot level a bit, so you have reason to use not-level-1 slots on it.


This spell no longer grants a +5 bonus to AC for all attacks. But it does grant resistance against damage from attacks that get through.

I suspect this spell is not as good as it used to be, but still strong. It was one of the strongest level 1 spells for a mid-high level caster (or a high AC gish), and now is just good not amazing for those purposes. On the other hand, you can use it to help soak a critical hit (or insanely high roll), unlike before.
I would think that such a bonus would start to throw off bounded accuracy. That is why the spell is set where it is.
 

nevin

Hero
I think you need to be slow and considerate when you make changes like that. If all spells scale or even a significant portion of them then Wizard spell numbers need to be adjusted. Otherwise you have a wizard with a number of each level spells adjusted for a lot of low level spells, suddenly with a LOT of more powerful spells.

I'd love to see a good way to make all spells scale and perhaps just give wizards a base number of spells to cast per character level. but I think it would require a lot of work, and thought to be balanced.

I assume he means that shield at lower levels is worth an action to cast while at higher levels higher level spells are almost always going to be a better option.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
What you mean "not as good as it used to be?"
This replaces the spell shield in 5e.

It grants the same AC bonus and immumity to MM damage.

But instead of lasting until the start of your last turn, it breaks after 1 attack after the triggering one. The spell still ends at the start of your next turn, but can also end earlier.

This is strictly worse than the shield spell.

I then added "you get resistance to damage from attacks" as a partial compensation. So attacks that hit despite your shield deal half damage.

Finally, the scaling part. At level 1 it can help against 1 extra attack. Every slot level higher makes it last another attack; a 2nd level slot makes it defend against up to 3 attacks.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
I would think that such a bonus would start to throw off bounded accuracy. That is why the spell is set where it is.
I don't understand how this throws.off bounded accuracy more than the original shield spell? It is worse at boosting your AC than the original spell.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
I assume he means that shield at lower levels is worth an action to cast while at higher levels higher level spells are almost always going to be a better option.
At low levels, shield is expensive to cast. You have few slots and level 1 slots are "high" level for you.

At high levels, shield is cheap to cast. You have many slots, and level 1 slots are not precious resources.

It still costs your reaction; but high level wizards can maintain shield against the vast majority of attacks on them (that would otherwise hit), especially during all challenging fights in a typical adventuring day.

Shiekd becomes dirt cheap.

After this change, temptation to use higher level slots arrives. And using 1st level slots is less useful against focus fire.
 

D1Tremere

Adventurer
I don't understand how this throws.off bounded accuracy more than the original shield spell? It is worse at boosting your AC than the original spell.
Sorry, I was confused by the various ways this information is being presented. The Original Spell grants +5 AC as a reaction, the boxed text for you version says it still grants +5 AC but you say afterwards that it does not. The whole point of the spell, with regard to bounded accuracy, is to increase the odd of negating hits for casters. Negating a hit is important for multiple effects, so why would you want to throw off bounded accuracy and make it easier to hit casters?
I think I am just fundamentally not understanding what problem you are trying to address, and how you are trying to address it.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
Sorry, I was confused by the various ways this information is being presented. The Original Spell grants +5 AC as a reaction, the boxed text for you version says it still grants +5 AC but you say afterwards that it does not. The whole point of the spell, with regard to bounded accuracy, is to increase the odd of negating hits for casters. Negating a hit is important for multiple effects, so why would you want to throw off bounded accuracy and make it easier to hit casters?
I think I am just fundamentally not understanding what problem you are trying to address, and how you are trying to address it.
A few issues.

So shield spell at high levels is a ridiculously efficient 1st level spell slot.

Enemy number of attacks and damage scale, but the cost of negating them does not.

On a character building for high AC AC, having access to shield spell and even a modest number of low level slots is ridiculously strong. Nothing but a critical hit can penetrate it.

The shield spell basically breaks bounded accuracy when stacked with other high-AC build choices.

Keeping the shield spell up against every attack costs you 1 spell slot (of any level) per round.

Dipping a class that grants shield (hexblade, wizard, sorcerer, some artificers) becomes part of "I cannot be hit" builds, and arguing that shield is always up is very plausible.

At low levels, meanwhile, shield is a decent spell, if expensive. Staying alive is often worth burning 1/2 of your daily spells at level 1.

So I think, at high levels, burning a 1st level slot and a reaction for +5 to AC against all attacks is overly strong.

---

I have seen DMs, when confronted with a moderate-to-high AC character who has shield, ending up resorting to ATK-inflation. Monsters start having higher ATK modifiers, just so that they can land a blow ever. This results in an AC arms race in the party, as anyone who doesn't have insane AC becomes auto-hit just so the DM can sometimes land blows on the insane-AC-plus-shield character.

So fixing shield so it is less "always on" has value (or at least making it cost more!)

---

The next issue is that builds who dip hexblade get a better deal than hexblades at using shield. Shield doesn't care what slot your spell is at all. A hexblade 2 is just as good at using the shield spell as a hexblade 10; and a caster MC hexblade who stops at level 1 is probably smart.

---

Adding these up, making a shield spell that is about as good for low level PCs, but at high levels you'll have to scale the spell slot used, could help.

Burning a 1st level slot on shield is still strong -- you get to negate the attack, and the next attack is more likely to miss, and even if it does hit, you take half damage. But it isn't the virtual immunity (on high AC builds) that the prior shield spell grants.

---

The "resistance to damage from attacks" is a cherry. You can cast shield even if it won't help (like against a critical hit) you get missed, but you halve the damage. This is a life saver compared to the default shield, and (I hope) helps make the change feel less nerfy.

For low-HP low-AC casters (for whom the spell is reasonable), this probably makes the spell better. They are more likely to experience "even a shield cast won't help you".

For shield-casting tanks, this makes it less "I am immune to attacks" and more "I can negate a select number of attacks". And can use it to blunt critical hits, which has value.

---

Suppose you have an enemy that needs a 15+ to hit the "tank" with shield, and a 10+ to hit a normal caster.

Normal shield makes the "tank" get hit only on a 20, and the caster on a 15+. They both have a 1/4 chance per attack for the shield spell to be useful (hit, but by less than 5).

If crits are 2x damage (close enough), then old-shield reduced damage to the tank by 71% (from 5/20 hits 1/20 crits, to 1/20 crits, is 5/7th of incoming damage negated), and to the caster by 42% (from 10/20 hits 1/20 crits to 5/20 hits 1/20 crits is 5/12 damage negated). Both burn about 0.7 slots/round against 4 attacks/round, but the tank gets a much much better ROI.

New-shield, using a slot high enough to defend against all attacks remaining, reduce the damage on the tank by 86% and the caster by 73%. But instead of 1st level slots, you are sometimes burning 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even higher level slots (depending on number of expected attacks before your next turn).

(The caster using the higher level slots gets resistance against the follow-up hits; the tank only gets to mitigate crits with the new version of shield).
 
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D1Tremere

Adventurer
A few issues.

So shield spell at high levels is a ridiculously efficient 1st level spell slot.

Enemy number of attacks and damage scale, but the cost of negating them does not.

On a character building for high AC AC, having access to shield spell and even a modest number of low level slots is ridiculously strong. Nothing but a critical hit can penetrate it.

The shield spell basically breaks bounded accuracy when stacked with other high-AC build choices.

Keeping the shield spell up against every attack costs you 1 spell slot (of any level) per round.

Dipping a class that grants shield (hexblade, wizard, sorcerer, some artificers) becomes part of "I cannot be hit" builds, and arguing that shield is always up is very plausible.

At low levels, meanwhile, shield is a decent spell, if expensive. Staying alive is often worth burning 1/2 of your daily spells at level 1.

So I think, at high levels, burning a 1st level slot and a reaction for +5 to AC against all attacks is overly strong.

---

I have seen DMs, when confronted with a moderate-to-high AC character who has shield, ending up resorting to ATK-inflation. Monsters start having higher ATK modifiers, just so that they can land a blow ever. This results in an AC arms race in the party, as anyone who doesn't have insane AC becomes auto-hit just so the DM can sometimes land blows on the insane-AC-plus-shield character.

So fixing shield so it is less "always on" has value (or at least making it cost more!)

---

The next issue is that builds who dip hexblade get a better deal than hexblades at using shield. Shield doesn't care what slot your spell is at all. A hexblade 2 is just as good at using the shield spell as a hexblade 10; and a caster MC hexblade who stops at level 1 is probably smart.

---

Adding these up, making a shield spell that is about as good for low level PCs, but at high levels you'll have to scale the spell slot used, could help.

Burning a 1st level slot on shield is still strong -- you get to negate the attack, and the next attack is more likely to miss, and even if it does hit, you take half damage. But it isn't the virtual immunity (on high AC builds) that the prior shield spell grants.

---

The "resistance to damage from attacks" is a cherry. You can cast shield even if it won't help (like against a critical hit) you get missed, but you halve the damage. This is a life saver compared to the default shield, and (I hope) helps make the change feel less nerfy.

For low-HP low-AC casters (for whom the spell is reasonable), this probably makes the spell better. They are more likely to experience "even a shield cast won't help you".

For shield-casting tanks, this makes it less "I am immune to attacks" and more "I can negate a select number of attacks". And can use it to blunt critical hits, which has value.

---

Suppose you have an enemy that needs a 15+ to hit the "tank" with shield, and a 10+ to hit a normal caster.

Normal shield makes the "tank" get hit only on a 20, and the caster on a 15+. They both have a 1/4 chance per attack for the shield spell to be useful (hit, but by less than 5).

If crits are 2x damage (close enough), then old-shield reduced damage to the tank by 71% (from 5/20 hits 1/20 crits, to 1/20 crits, is 5/7th of incoming damage negated), and to the caster by 42% (from 10/20 hits 1/20 crits to 5/20 hits 1/20 crits is 5/12 damage negated). Both burn about 0.7 slots/round against 4 attacks/round, but the tank gets a much much better ROI.

New-shield, using a slot high enough to defend against all attacks remaining, reduce the damage on the tank by 86% and the caster by 73%. But instead of 1st level slots, you are sometimes burning 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even higher level slots (depending on number of expected attacks before your next turn).

(The caster using the higher level slots gets resistance against the follow-up hits; the tank only gets to mitigate crits with the new version of shield).
I could be wrong, but I think they carefully balanced it so that it doesn't break Bounded Accuracy as is.
A hexblade in Medium armor can have AC 15 (Half-Plate) +2 (Shield) = 17 and can burn spells and a reaction for +5 = 22 about 4 times a day (4 spell slots at 20th level).
A sorcerer in no armor can have AC 10 and can burn spells and a reaction for +5 = 15 about 22 times a day (22 spell slots at 20th level).
A wizard bladesinger in light armor can have AC 12 and can burn spells and a reaction for +5 = 17 about 22 times a day (22 spell slots at 20th level).
A Fighter in Heavy armor can have AC 18 (Plate) +2 (Shield) all the time without burning anything = 20

Also of note, as a 1st level spell Shield is easy to counter and casting it prevents casting any other spells for the most part. Likewise, casting any other spells means you can't cast shield that turn for the most part.
 

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