OSR Must OSR = Deadly?

[Jack Daniel]

I am running a game in Swords and Wizardry and playing in a game in Old School Essentials, both games in the OSR movement. A common feature in both is "things are really hard."

In S&W if the party's magic-user wins Initiative, he can cast Sleep and pretty much take out an entire small dungeon complex. If he loses Initiative, an enemy spellcaster can do the exact same thing - or otherwise the group is surrounded and chopped down pretty quickly.

Our OSE game is a dungeon crawl that sees us make (literally) 40 feet of progress in the dungeon each weekly session before needing to turn back after facing impossible odds. The previous session was stirges we couldn't scare off with torches that killed two party members; this week was three lizardmen who were in a barbaric rage that we couldn't sneak past or reason with.

This isn't the style of game I remember playing back in the 80s and 90s. If it was like this, we'd have never made it to 2nd level.

What gives now? Is the entire OSR movement just for bragging rights for grognards? Is there some in-between system (between OSR and 5e) that is rules-lite, fun, and fast-paced?

Depends entirely on what you mean by "OSR." If you just mean "people playing OD&D and AD&D again," then of course not. That always varied from table to table. The so-called OSR play style is rank revisionism, and you should feel free to acknowledge or ignore it to whatever degree you prefer, even when playing so-called OSR games.

I'm running a group of players through a traditional dungeon-crawl campaign over on the rpg.net forums, and they just completed their very first dungeon-delve with zero casualties. They didn't even have hirelings; the reaction and morale rules were quite enough to keep the proceedings from becoming a bloodbath. Feel free to take a look if you're interested in seeing an example of an old-fashioned adventure campaign in progress where lethal outcomes are absolutely possible, even likely, but hardly inevitable.

 

[Zardnaar]

Holy Moses! Yeah that is actually scary!

we were fighting ghouls and I guarantee when we were getting dragged off it makes you squirm, make believe or not!

which means good entertainment...

Well if ghouls are dragging you off odds are you're not squirming.

 

[Oofta]

Well if ghouls are dragging you off odds are you're not squirming.

Which is why I prefer a tentacle reaching out from the dense fog. Then put it in a cave that echoes sounds making it difficult to know where the screams for help are coming from. Funny how dangerous a roper feels when it can see you but you can't see it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Which is why I prefer a tentacle reaching out from the dense fog. Then put it in a cave that echoes sounds making it difficult to know where the screams for help are coming from. Funny how dangerous a roper feels when it can see you but you can't see it.

"Scribbles notes".

 

[Stormonu]

To me, the older versions of D&D were about "there's no guarantee". The characters were in over their head and even what seemed like a simple combat had the chance for death. Players never went into a situation knowing that it was "of the correct CR" - it was a gamble and the safe bet was to do your best to avoid getting into a fight in the first place. You didn't go into a dungeon and search every nook and cranny because that would get you killed. You slipped in, looked for a secret door to avoid the worst traps and creatures, looted what you could and got the hell out.

It wasn't until late 2E and the beginning of 3E that characters started being seen as "heroes" that were expected to triumph after a hard-fought battle and that almost every encounter was built with the thought that the PCs would overcome it - on their first character.

Not that I miss those old days, I'm comfortable with the game as it is nowadays.

 

[Zardnaar]

To me, the older versions of D&D were about "there's no guarantee". The characters were in over their head and even what seemed like a simple combat had the chance for death. Players never went into a situation knowing that it was "of the correct CR" - it was a gamble and the safe bet was to do your best to avoid getting into a fight in the first place. You didn't go into a dungeon and search every nook and cranny because that would get you killed. You slipped in, looked for a secret door to avoid the worst traps and creatures, looted what you could and got the hell out.

It wasn't until late 2E and the beginning of 3E that characters started being seen as "heroes" that were expected to triumph after a hard-fought battle and that almost every encounter was built with the thought that the PCs would overcome it - on their first character.

Not that I miss those old days, I'm comfortable with the game as it is nowadays.

I'm somewhere in the middle. Being a hero is fine just be careful (moreso than 5E).

 

[tetrasodium]

it doesn't need to be deadly, things like magic items were much more common back the than in 5e & tended to be things that did not recharge like 5e magic items. There was a lot more emphasis on the tactical component & combat as war over 5e's combat as lazy near passive sport. It's extremely tough to go back to that style using 5e for various reasons including 5e's over simplification in so many areas of the game.

 

[Zardnaar]

it doesn't need to be deadly, things like magic items were much more common back the than in 5e & tended to be things that did not recharge like 5e magic items. There was a lot more emphasis on the tactical component & combat as war over 5e's combat as lazy near passive sport. It's extremely tough to go back to that style using 5e for various reasons including 5e's over simplification in so many areas of the game.

I played some of them post 5E release.

They're easier to run than 5E, 5E is only easy compared to 3E and 4E.

Generally you get hit less and for less damage but you need magical healing to compensate.

Gritty vs deadly would probably be a better description, at least for a lot if published adventures with occasional exceptions (tomb of horrors).

 

[tetrasodium]

I played some of them post 5E release.

They're easier to run than 5E, 5E is only easy compared to 3E and 4E.

Generally you get hit less and for less damage but you need magical healing to compensate.

Gritty vs deadly would probably be a better description, at least for a lot if published adventures with occasional exceptions (tomb of horrors).

I've played and run a few as well but wasn't trying to suggest that the osr games are hard to play/run so much as that style is something extremely difficult to force onto 5e

 

[Zardnaar]

I've played and run a few as well but wasn't trying to suggest that the osr games are hard to play/run so much as that style is something extremely difficult to force onto 5e

Yeah you kinda need to invent new rules or ways to use existing ones.

Replace 5E energy drain with exhaustion levels for example.