D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

Then play it in a game with a party.
These builds have nothing to do with real games, these builds are purely for a restricted PvP sandbox, this is more like playing Monopoly than it is D&D. Making a 20th level character under perfect conditions is very different from playing a character from 1st to 20th. I don't know about anyone else, but what I end up with at 20th level very rarely matches what I envisioned for the character when he was 1st. As the character progresses, he adapts to his environment, maybe I intended him to take only ASI's, no feats and he started with a greatsword, but found a flaming longsword along the way. So he ended up going sword and board, with Shield Master. Of course, he may have gotten tired of dropping to 0 HP every other fight and decided to dip 3 levels into Barbarian. Characters are supposed to change and grow in unexpected ways, not follow stringent cookie cutter paths from 1st to 20th, that is how you end up with characters afflicted with Agoraphobia. The last character I had that made 20th level saw something like 400+ hours of play and I would take him over The Lazy one every single time.
 
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These builds have nothing to do with real games, these builds are purely for a restricted PvP sandbox, this is more like playing Monopoly than it is D&D. Making a 20th level character under perfect conditions is very different from playing a character from 1st to 20th. I don't know about anyone else, but what I end up with at 20th level very rarely matches what I envisioned for the character when he was 1st. As the character progresses, he adapts to his environment, maybe I intended him to take only ASI's, no feats and he started with a greatsword, but found a flaming longsword along the way. So he ended up going sword and board, with Shield Master. Of course, he may have gotten tired of dropping to 0 HP every other fight and decided to dip 3 levels into Barbarian. Characters are supposed to change and grow in unexpected ways, not follow stringent cookie cutter paths from 1st to 20th, that is how you end up with characters afflicted with Agoraphobia.
I strongly disagree.
Both build is very very simple, no magical Items, and single classed.
His tatics are otimized, that all.
 


And really boring to play in a real game
Clockwork Sorcerer, with metamagic, the best skill monkey of the game and more spells than Wizard's prepared spells boring? Ok.

My favorite deadly low level build. I always play it. It do what a mage should do. Fireball, but Super Fireball.


Scourge Aasimar Dragon Sorcerer level 8
Feat: Elemental Adept(Fire) feat, Tough feat and 16 con.
82 HP, AC 16 (21 with shield)
Metamagic: Empower, Quicken.

Action Aasimar's skill
Bonus action: Quicken Empowered level 4 Fireball.

Damage: Final damage 55.
Its one shot against Wizards.

Next turn:
Empowered fire bolt for 18 damage.
Quicken Fireball for 55 damage.
total of 73 damage.

All damage ignores resistence and cover.

Simple, Effective, One Shot K.O and tanker.
 
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Effective, One Shot K.O and tanker.
So what? I had 400+ hours of play with the character, he was fun and interesting, he had friends who were also fun and interesting and the only time he was ever involved in PvP was when he and the Paladin got drunk and had argument about which of us was the better fighter. We slugged it out in the mud outside the tavern, no weapons, no special abilities, just two men going at it with their fists as Odin intended. Then afterwards we went back in, drank and sang together until dawn. I have dozens of stories about this character. The Lazy One can one shot him, so what?
 

Clockwork Sorcerer, with metamagic, the best skill monkey of the game and more spells than Wizard's prepared spells boring? Ok.

My favorite deadly low level build. I always play it. It do what a mage should do. Fireball, but Super Fireball.


Scourge Aasimar Dragon Sorcerer level 8
Feat: Elemental Adept(Fire) feat, Tough feat and 16 con.
82 HP, AC 16 (21 with shield)
Metamagic: Empower, Quicken.

Action Aasimar's skill
Bonus action: Quicken Empowered level 4 Fireball.

Damage: Final damage 55.
Its one shot against Wizards.

Next turn:
Empowered fire bolt for 18 damage.
Quicken Fireball for 55 damage.
total of 73 damage.

All damage ignores resistence and cover.

Simple, Effective, One Shot K.O and tanker.
Strongly disagree, etc. yawn

Get another track, this one's boring
 

My favorite deadly low level build. I always play it. It do what a mage should do. Fireball, but Super Fireball.\
Actually, a mage should do what needs to be done. I figure that's not always fireball ad nauseum.
Scourge Aasimar Dragon Sorcerer level 8
Feat: Elemental Adept(Fire) feat, Tough feat and 16 con.
82 HP, AC 16 (21 with shield)
Metamagic: Empower, Quicken.

Action Aasimar's skill
Bonus action: Quicken Empowered level 4 Fireball.

Damage: Final damage 55.
Its one shot against Wizards.

Next turn:
Empowered fire bolt for 18 damage.
Quicken Fireball for 55 damage.
total of 73 damage.

All damage ignores resistence and cover.

Simple, Effective, One Shot K.O and tanker.
Why does it matter that you are one-shotting wizards of your level? Wizards shouldn't be the only thing you're fighting, and you should have many different types of challenges. Sorcerers and wizards are built to scratch different itches in play, both as characters--they tend to have different stories--and as far as how they solve problems and approach adventuring.
 


These builds have nothing to do with real games, these builds are purely for a restricted PvP sandbox, this is more like playing Monopoly than it is D&D. Making a 20th level character under perfect conditions is very different from playing a character from 1st to 20th. I don't know about anyone else, but what I end up with at 20th level very rarely matches what I envisioned for the character when he was 1st. As the character progresses, he adapts to his environment, maybe I intended him to take only ASI's, no feats and he started with a greatsword, but found a flaming longsword along the way. So he ended up going sword and board, with Shield Master. Of course, he may have gotten tired of dropping to 0 HP every other fight and decided to dip 3 levels into Barbarian. Characters are supposed to change and grow in unexpected ways, not follow stringent cookie cutter paths from 1st to 20th, that is how you end up with characters afflicted with Agoraphobia.

Between often being the DM and having some groups fall apart (particularly in the face of COVID), there are only four 5e Characters I've gotten to play through five or more levels:

1. A Sword Bard whom I had planned to make dual rapier wielder with the appropriate dual wielder feat. She ended up wielding daggers most of the time, having found several magic ones, skipped the feat at level 4 in favor of upping Charisma because nothing she did with any blade was on par with what she could do with a well-timed Suggestion spell, and, when the campaign wound down at level 7, had still never once touched a rapier, and was actually leaning more towards taking the Crossbow Expert feat at level 8. At level 3 she became a wererat.

2. A Ranger who eventually became Gloomstalker Ranger 5/War Wizard 3. This guy had the best overall stats I've ever rolled, so in addition to all the normal Ranger priorities I was able to put a 16 in Intelligence, with my eye on a 2 level War Wizard dip at some far flung point, probably after a Rogue, Fighter, and/or Bard dip. But then we found a couple of awesome Spellbooks and the party had lost all its other casters. Should the campaign ever resume he's likely going to keep on Wizarding.

3. A Battlemaster Figther 5/Barbarian 2, currently still being played. He has a 15 in Charisma so that he could maybe multiclass into Paladin someday, but that was a plan from before the party gained a healer, and now pretty unlikely. He was meant to be a Great Weapon Master with a Greatsword (basically because of movie Conan), but became a Polearm Master so that delaying extra attack until level 6 wouldn't hurt so much. Then he found a really good spear which is now his signature weapon, and might respec at the next ASI, as per Tasha's rules, to swap out Great Weapon Fighting for Dueling and be a Shield and Board fighter. At level 5 he became a werebear.

4. A Conjuration Wizard 5/Storm Sorcerer 1. She started with the Sorcerer level for RP reasons and was supposed to eventually do the full Sorcerer 3 dip to get Metamagic, but now if the campaign should ever resume I'll probably just do Sorcerer 2 for spells to Sorcery point conversion and then the Tasha's metamagic feat. This is the only character that actually ended up roughly according to plan. Notably it is also the character played with an oversized group of 7+ players who has gotten comparatively less in the way of both spotlight time and magic items than any of the other three.

Now I don't know how typical my experiences are, and certainly had I been more inclined to rigidly adhere to a planned character build, even in the face of magic items, character development, and shifting group needs I could have stayed mostly on plan with any of them, my habit of catching lycanthropy notwithstanding. But honestly, if you find yourself getting through whole tiers of play without anything going off-plan in your character build then I feel sorry for you. It probably means your character isn't getting as much development as they should and that you aren't getting any interesting magic bling.

I will note that the characters I've had who developed in unexpected ways (both the above and another who I didn't play for so long, but who became cursed by the campaign MacGuffin and has been largely defined by that ever since), have all been the ones I played in small groups, each of which spent substantial numbers of sessions with only three players. I think with smaller groups you both get more spotlight time and are more likely to have play focus on giving individual characters extended spotlight time. You also get a larger share of magical items and have more magical items that don't really fit anyone's planned build.
 

Stats 10 or 20 mean absolutely nothing. What determines things are skill checks.
The Sorcerer can have 22~32+1d4 in every skill. With Magical Guidance, Trance of Order and Advantage.

Even with pure Intelligence check +0 int check vs Wizard's +5 Int check. The Sorcerer is smarter, because he is a magical creature and Sorcerer's Magical Guidance makes him smarter (Better Int check) than a Wizard with 20 Int. The difference is obvious, The Bastion is clearly superior and smarter by a large largin

" but I don't think it's the wizards in this scenario."

I beg to disagree
I mean, this assumes Skill Empowerment right? So, with by casting a 5th level spell, and using a class feature, and having a second character cast guidance on them..constantly somehow, they get to be maybe verrry slightly better than a vanilla rogue is with the rogue's proficient skills...for 1 minute at a time (maybe a little longer if the sorcerer is burning all their slots for SP, and using all those SP for Trance).

An ordinary rogue with magic initiate is your equal with at least 4 of the skills with no resource expenditure 24/7 before factoring in any subclass benefits, races or feats. Call it stealth, insight, perception, investigation, and 90% of your approach mechanics turn into a coin toss. (Actually it's worse than that since at 20, rogues can use stroke of luck to make an ability check roll turn into a 20 1x/SR, which means if the rogue looks for you and you are present, they will find you).

And there's more, rogues are this good at all of these skills at the same time. So while your sorcerer is burning a 5th level spell slot to be temporarily rogue-like in stealth, they can't be similarly rogue-like in perception so they are vulnerable to other stealthy parties.

In fact, the 6v1 probably wouldn't even need to include a wizard. 6 lvl 20 rogues with readied attacks from stealth will (stroke of luck - turn a miss into a hit 1x/SR) do 50-60d6 damage in base sneak attack alone in round 1 (50 assuming the sorcerer can kill one of them in the opening round). Then add in 5-6*weapon damage, 5-6*Sharpshooter bonus, any crit effects, and.. you've got a ....loooooooottt of damage headed your way.

Let's see low end damage assuming a longbow gets to...22.5 weapon damage + 50 sharpshooter + 175 sneak attack = 247.5 for the damage floor. Any crits add 39.5 damage to this damage floor, some amount extra if you don't kill your first target, and heaven help you if the DM rules that you are surprised and any assassins are in this 6v1. Aaaaanddd, all this assumes you find them before they find you, which is unlikely for reasons noted above)

Further... stuff like Spell Thief from Arcane Tricksters could just straight up negate your alpha strike.

The short version is, a 6v1 even with your limitations on magic items would be a 1-sided bloodbath with a sorcerer corpse in the middle.
 

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