D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Jfdlsjfd]

Hidden is hidden.
The Subtle Spells doesn't reveal him, It also doesn't reveal him position, his spell are imperceptible. It's unnoticed.
End.

Unless you spend a Fate point to remove the Consequence (obviously you are not playing D&D, so I guess you're doing Fate maybe?)

 

[Hohige]

Because it was wrong? Hostile doesn't mean a creature has noticed you. It's its disposition toward you (friendly = want to help, neutral = doesn't care, hostile = opposes you). Saying that all the demon lords are friendly to you requires a huge amount of DM fiat, which you ruled out in the thread very first posts.

It's neutral against something that they can't notice. hahaha. They aren't hostile.
It has a lot of creatures subtle binded, like genies, angels, celestials, Rakshasas, Arcanaloths.

 

[Hohige]

Unless you spend a Fate point to remove the Consequence (obviously you are not playing D&D, so I guess you're doing Fate maybe?)

You simply don't know basic rules.
You will not reveal his position with imperceptible spells, sorry.

If you cast a subtle fireball, Fireball comes from your direction
It's obvious that will reveal your position.
But, It isn't fireball, The bastion spells are intentionally chosen to be imperceptible and not reveal his position.
Planar Binding, Dispel Magic, Dominate Person, Meteor Swarm
Yes Meteor Swarm or Freezing Sphere, because it doesn't come from your direction, like fireball.
The Bastion can simple dominate the Wizards without chance of reaction.

The Bastion remains hidden and unoticed.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

It's neutral against something that they can't notice. hahaha. They aren't hostile.

No they are hostile, unless you plead to the DM that people aren't bothered when someone they don't know steps out of the shadow and give them an order they feel "bound" to obey.

 

[Hohige]

No they are hostile, unless you plead to the DM that people aren't bothered when someone they don't know steps out of the shadow and give them an order they feel "bound" to obey.

No, they aren't. sorry.
Demon Lords love destruction, a command to defeat Wizards because they are challenging him. will be certainly a nice command. Who cares about Fat wizard with 8 cha?

"Send your demons to find and destroy the Wizards and their Schools of Magic".

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

No, they aren't. sorry.

OK, so demons are not hostile by DM fiat and don't mind people invading their sanctum.

Demon Lords love destruction, a command to defeat Wizards because they are challenging him. will be certainly a nice command.

Err... Wait! You just established that demons aren't hostile. Why would they suddenly embark in a crusade of destruction if they are usually nice guys who love taking orders from unknown persons?

 

[Hohige]

OK, so demons are not hostile by DM fiat and don't mind people invading their sanctum.

I strongly disagree, again.
They can't see, perceive or notice the Bastion.

"but if the creature is Hostile to you."

The creature doesn't even know who I am and I can't see me.

For them, nothing happens. Just a command of destruction that they love to do. Destruction is what demons do.

It looks like you still don't understand Bastion's strength. The strength of the shadows to manipule everything with impunity.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Step 1: cast the spell
Step 2: appear to the bound creature & give order
Step 3: the bound creature obey the order

If you remove step two claiming that AT NO POINT they perceived the Irrational One... How can he give the order?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Among the relevant PHB quotes, you should take into account that "hidden" doesn't mean "unnoticed". When you cast a spell, you stay hidden but you reveal your position. So under some circumstances, you can still benefits from being hidden (creatures have disadvantage attacking you) but they know your existence and position. You're trying to replicate the setup (being hidden while casting a spell) that triggers the "magical ambush" ability from the Arcane Trickster subclass, of which Jeremy Crawford explained (I won't say clarified because it was already very clear) that "The intent is that you benefit from being hidden but then reveal your position." So the material component DO matter, because it forces you to reveal your position, while staying hidden. So you can be counterspelled, for example, if someone has a reaction available.

If you cast a spell through Subtle Wish, which doesn't involve material component and whose verbal component is neutralized by subtle casting, you could remain in the shadows and not give away your position (you're just wishing in your head that Bel Shalor should be bound to you as per the standard spell upcast to 8th level).

This doesn't mean that the target can't know where you are, how many of you there are or anything, but does it mean that the subject of the spell notices an effect? It depends on the spell. A fireball has an obvious effect. A Planar Binding has not, but you have to give a perceptible order to the creature for it to have any effect. Planar Binding doesn't convey the order, you're still expected to give the actual order. And doing so, you need to be perceived by the target (who couldn't act upon an imperceptible order because it wouldn't perceive it, you know...) And that's where your plan usually fail: unless you happen to succeed on the first time you cast the spell, you give your position when you do the next step (giving your order).

Hidden specifically means that the hider's location is unknown (although you may have a goid guess). You're confusing unseen attackers with hidden.

Not that @Hohige has is right, mind.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Hidden specifically means that the hider's location is unknown (although you may have a goid guess).

We have a slightly differing interpration. I read that can still benefit from hiding even when your position is revealed.

The complete quote from the PHB is this:

The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence. You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase. An invisible creature can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, and it does have to stay quiet. In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the DM might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack roll before you are seen.

From the fist bolded passage, we learn that hiding is DM fiat, therefore unavailable within the context of this thread.
From the second, I read that you can't "hide in plain sight" but if you make noise for example (or, in this case, use a material component) it doesn't state that you can't hide but that your location is revealed (while still being hidden). From the next sentence, we learn that invisible creatures aren't automatically hidden (since they can only "try to hide", ie, make a Stealth roll) despite being invisible. If they fail, they are unseen, but not hidden.

From the "Unseen Attackers and Targets" section, there is a mechanical disadvantage to attacker a creature one can't see.

I think the distinction is hidden is "unseen and unheard" which is achieved by hiding successfully, then you can either be "no longer hidden" (say because you leave your hiding place or the person you're hiding from changes location and suddenly you're in plain sight from him) or still hidden, but with your location known. "I know there is a sniper in the farm over there, he's firing from the window.... but I can't see him nonetheless". I don't think you're automatically no longer hidden when you take an action that reveal your location. I suppose you take "reveal his position" to mean "stops hiding"?

Combatants often try to escape their foes' notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness. When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target's location correctly. When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden-both unseen and unheard-when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.

You're confusing unseen attackers with hidden.

Not that @Hohige has is right, mind.

That's a point we're agreeing all along.