D&D 5E Fluff & Rule, Lore & Crunch. The Interplay of Class, System, and Color in D&D

[Voadam]

Once you have those three (basically FIGHT, SPELL, and GISH) everything that came after it became more lore-heavy, with the possible (possible!) exception of the Thief.

Very heavily lore dependent.

Why do burglars have the ability to use spell scrolls? It might have to do with the Gray Mouser doing so in one of his stories.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I once had an arguement with my wife because I wanted to make a barroom brawler character using the monk rules (there was no better official option for the concept at the time). Her stance was that if you chose a class, you had to take the lore pre-conceptions that came along with it, and to do otherwise was disingenuous. I didn't and don't agree, but I can see her point, and there's nothing wrong with playing the game as intended. In fact, it's that tension to follow the book that has led to a proliferation of subclasses, so that different character concepts are supported by both lore and crunch.

 

[Scribe]

For me that reason is because the 5e SRD is so limited in material and options. I played out of the SRD through all of 3.0., 3.5, and Pathfinder 1e. The 4e "SRD" was even worse.

Interesting, to me I just enjoy that shared world experience. I enjoy that there is a framework, a cosmology, a world, that others also experience.

Breaking it down to just the nuts and bolts is too dry for me.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I once had an arguement with my wife because I wanted to make a barroom brawler character using the monk rules (there was no better official option for the concept at the time). Her stance was that if you chose a class, you had to take the lore pre-conceptions that came along with it, and to do otherwise was disingenuous. I didn't and don't agree, but I can see her point, and there's nothing wrong with playing the game as intended. In fact, it's that tension to follow the book that has led to a proliferation of subclasses, so that different character concepts are supported by both lore and crunch.

....and I lost. Most stories that start like that can be condensed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

....and I lost. Most stories that start like that can be condensed.

That is very funny (and completely true), but I still think the tension between those ideas is worth exploring.

 

[TwoSix]

Since then, you have the same issue. You have to include the lore-light core classes (such as Fighter, Wizard) and if you want some continuity, you also have to make a place for the other classes that mostly exist because of some tie-in to traditional lore.

Oh, I agree that evolutionary history is the reason for the classes as they are, that just doesn't make me like it any more.

It's like how I'm sure there's a good evolutionary reason for a platypus to be an egg-laying, duck-billed mammal; that doesn't change that it's a stupid, stupid animal.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Very heavily lore dependent.

Why do burglars have the ability to use spell scrolls? It might have to do with the Gray Mouser doing so in one of his stories.

While Gygax loved the Lieber stories, I think that it was largely based on the Switzer design, with some Vance (Cugel) and Zelazny (Jack of Shadows) mixed in.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Oh, I agree that evolutionary history is the reason for the classes as they are, that just doesn't make me like it any more.

It's like how I'm sure there's a good evolutionary reason for a platypus to be an egg-laying, duck-billed mammal; that doesn't change that it's a stupid, stupid animal.

Hence the well-earned nickname for the Platypus, "The Bard of the Animal Kingdom."

 

[prabe]

That is very funny (and completely true), but I still think the tension between those ideas is worth exploring.

I concur. I think those of us who run homebrew settings--even if they're intentionally kitchen-sinky--perhaps play with that tension, as we twist the lore to fit our visions. I'm not so strict as your wife is on insisting that a player fit their character to fit the lore of the class that's a mechanical best fit, but I do (at least mostly) expect, e.g., monks to have learned how to do what they do, somehow, and paladins to have an oath that defines the shape of their priorities.

 

[Voadam]

Interesting, to me I just enjoy that shared world experience. I enjoy that there is a framework, a cosmology, a world, that others also experience.

Breaking it down to just the nuts and bolts is too dry for me.

Going by the books that is still going to be campaign specific.

Forgotten Realms has different gods, cosmology, and world than Eberron.

It has been varied campaign to campaign since the beginning.