D&D 5E Sorcerers Should Be Constitution-Based Casters, Not Charisma

[MoonSong]

I've written up a few classes/sub-classes on this mechanism since this topic started, but I'm focusing on the Warlock instead, HP for Sorcery Points for Spell Slots, could just be HP for Spell Slots, or even HP for Spells. Lots of ways to play around with it. I'm surprised we dont already have this mechanic in 5e actually its quite common when I start looking around.

I believe there's maybe a 3rd Party class for it in Mercer's world but I dont own his stuff.

I made a cantrip back when the database existed that did this.

 

[Hohige]

Wow, con based unbalanced?
Yes its!!
But, The spellcasting costs HP instead Spell slot!
It should work!

 

[FrogReaver]

Wow, con based unbalanced?
Yes its!!
But, The spellcasting costs HP instead Spell slot!
It should work!

Only when the whole game is designed around that paradigm. Spells can heal far more hp than you could ever have them cost. As such allowing such would allow spell slots to never run dry. Such a thing doesn't work, it breaks the game.

 

[FrogReaver]

The title is pretty self-explanatory, but I'll explain what I mean and why I think it works better than the current Sorcerer class.

Before I start explaining, let me explain that I am not saying that this should be immediately implemented into 5e as is. Constitution has its own balance issues, which I've gone into detail on in this thread. This change would likely require a 5.5e/6e in order to implement without major balance issues.

Sorcerous magic is inherent/innate. The PHB says, "Magic is a part of every sorcerer, suffusing body, mind, and spirit with a latent power that waits to be tapped". The Draconic Sorcerer subclass is even called the "Draconic Bloodline". Sorcerers get magic from being born with it or having their body/mind/soul warped by a magical power source (like the Shadowfell or Limbo). They are suffused with arcane magic, it being a part of them. Additionally, there is a basis for this. The magic item the Bloodwell Vial requires a sorcerer to put their blood in the magic item before they can attune to it. The Aberrant Dragonmark feat lets you use Constitution to cast sorcerer spells. Genasi can cast their innate elemental spells using Constitution. It just makes sense and should be the base.

So, what do you all think? Should Sorcerers use Constitution instead of Charisma?

It doesn't make sense lore wise. Dragons and other monsters don't typically cast spells via Constitution.

It doesn't make sense balance wise for 1 single caster class to couple survivability and offense together - especially when martials don't get that benefit.

 

[CleverNickName]

This topic reminds me of an old house-rule we used for 3.5 Edition, back in the day. One of the players wanted to home-brew a special kind of sorcerer that could sacrifice her hit points to power her spells...effectively letting her use her hit points as spell slots. So I allowed it on a trial basis, and it turned out to be pretty fun.

Basically, to cast a spell she would have to reduce her max HP by the spell level. Want to cast Fireball, reduce your max hp by 3. Magic missile, max hp goes down by 1. And so on. To help prevent the worst abuses, we ruled that those hit points stayed gone until dawn of the next day; it couldn't be cure light wounds'd or lesser restoration'd away.

It worked fine; the player was satisfied and the character was fun to play. I think she especially liked that she only had to track her hit points...no fiddly spell slots, no separate piles of resources. I'm not sure how well it would translate to 5E, or to non-sorcerer characters, or high-level characters, or multiclassed characters, or with powergamey min/max players, or etc. etc. etc. But we enjoyed it well enough.

 

[Hohige]

This topic reminds me of an old house-rule we used for 3.5 Edition, back in the day. One of the players wanted to home-brew a special kind of sorcerer that could sacrifice her hit points to power her spells...effectively letting her use her hit points as spell slots. So I allowed it on a trial basis, and it turned out to be pretty fun.

Basically, to cast a spell she would have to reduce her max HP by the spell level. Want to cast Fireball, reduce your max hp by 3. Magic missile, max hp goes down by 1. And so on. To help prevent the worst abuses, we ruled that those hit points stayed gone until dawn of the next day; it couldn't be cure light wounds'd or lesser restoration'd away.

It worked fine; the player was satisfied and the character was fun to play. I think she especially liked that she only had to track her hit points...no fiddly spell slots, no separate piles of resources. I'm not sure how well it would translate to 5E, or to non-sorcerer characters, or high-level characters, or multiclassed characters, or with powergamey min/max players, or etc. etc. etc. But we enjoyed it well enough.

Con based that uses HP instead Spell slot makes a lot of sense.
Magic in your blood....

 

[FrogReaver]

This topic reminds me of an old house-rule we used for 3.5 Edition, back in the day. One of the players wanted to home-brew a special kind of sorcerer that could sacrifice her hit points to power her spells...effectively letting her use her hit points as spell slots. So I allowed it on a trial basis, and it turned out to be pretty fun.

Basically, to cast a spell she would have to reduce her max HP by the spell level. Want to cast Fireball, reduce your max hp by 3. Magic missile, max hp goes down by 1. And so on. To help prevent the worst abuses, we ruled that those hit points stayed gone until dawn of the next day; it couldn't be cure light wounds'd or lesser restoration'd away.

It worked fine; the player was satisfied and the character was fun to play. I think she especially liked that she only had to track her hit points...no fiddly spell slots, no separate piles of resources. I'm not sure how well it would translate to 5E, or to non-sorcerer characters, or high-level characters, or multiclassed characters, or with powergamey min/max players, or etc. etc. etc. But we enjoyed it well enough.

Well lowering max go isn’t quite the same as lowering hp . I could more easily get on board with the max hp part.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It doesn't make sense lore wise. Dragons and other monsters don't typically cast spells via Constitution.

It doesn't make sense balance wise for 1 single caster class to couple survivability and offense together - especially when martials don't get that benefit.

Then change the lore. It's happened before. Or, explain why True Dragons cast using CHA and why their descendants cast using CON. Lore is a non-issue.

Then make other classes focus more on CON, too. If the Blood Hunter ever becomes official, it could use CON for its abilities.

 

[FrogReaver]

Then change the lore. It's happened before. Or, explain why True Dragons cast using CHA and why their descendants cast using CON. Lore is a non-issue.

How about no?

Then make other classes focus more on CON, too. If the Blood Hunter ever becomes official, it could use CON for its abilities.

Doesn't sound much like D&D to me...

 

[MoonSong]

Then change the lore. It's happened before. Or, explain why True Dragons cast using CHA and why their descendants cast using CON. Lore is a non-issue.

So you want to change lore AND mechanics? How is this not a different class then?