D&D General If D&D were created today, what would it look like?

[Bohandas]

Concept wise, the classes and races would be pretty similar.

Although they probably wouldn't have used the word "race" as it's much more convenient to do research these days and somebody would have looked it up and said "oh. that's not what that word means"

 

[wingsandsword]

Although they probably wouldn't have used the word "race" as it's much more convenient to do research these days and somebody would have looked it up and said "oh. that's not what that word means"

Or, that's what it means in a fantasy world context.

The D&D usage of the word "race" is in the meaning that Tolkien gave it in his works, where he referenced humans, dwarves et al. as being different "races".

Yes, if D&D were invented whole-cloth today, the term "race" might not be used, but it's not like Gygax just ignored the meaning of the word when he used it, he was using it in the context it was used by the 20th century fantasy literature that inspired D&D.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One of the Skirmish Wargames I like is In Her Majesties Name, a Victorian Sci FI game, where players form an Adventuring Company (5-20 figures) with a named heroic Leader and a deputy.
Theres a point system with which to buy Talents&Powers and Gear for the characters and guidelines for running campaigns and improving heroes between game sessions (gaining new talents, upgrading gear etc). Narrative is very much encouraged. The rules include rules for magic/mystic Powers

Anyway I cant say whether the game exist because of DnDs RP inspiration, but it does show a pathway from Skirmish Game with a ‘Hero character’ and their squad to the RPG focus on just the ‘Heroic character’ with foillowers abstracted OR perhaps Troupe play would become the default approach. I’ve also played games with 4 players trying to get the same objective, so having a player take the GM role of playing the random environment is possible too

I think what we would see is basically the TTRPG market today, minus D&D and it’s most direct kin. That is, many different roleplaying games.

I think we would see a game where you play the best and brightest of a squad of people, and spend advancement resources on your Heroes and on your Allies. We’d also see games of singular heroes, and games designed to model the classic five man band.

One thing we wouldn’t see, IMO, is dungeon delving, hard focus on pseudo medieval Europe, and sentients that are assumed to be bad guys. We’d have grown past that faster, without D&D to keep it alive and strong.

 

[Faolyn]

So I dunno about dice vs. cards vs. some other mechanics for gameplay, but one thing I'm really doubting we get is anything like character classes, without D&D and other RPGs. My bet is characters are a lot more freeform.

I suppose the next question is, where did D&D get classes from? Were they totally from wargames and Tolkien? Personally, I don't think that classes would be totally absent. There are definitely enough class-like tropes in other stories available at the time. Wizards, knights in shining armor, thieves and brigands, healers, alchemists, etc.

 

[Aldarc]

Or, that's what it means in a fantasy world context.

The D&D usage of the word "race" is in the meaning that Tolkien gave it in his works, where he referenced humans, dwarves et al. as being different "races".

Yes, if D&D were invented whole-cloth today, the term "race" might not be used, but it's not like Gygax just ignored the meaning of the word when he used it, he was using it in the context it was used by the 20th century fantasy literature that inspired D&D.

Maybe, but regardless of how Tolkien used it in a fantasy world context, it's likely that it would not have been chosen as the preferred term in a more contemporaneous context.

 

[Bohandas]

Or, that's what it means in a fantasy world context.

The D&D usage of the word "race" is in the meaning that Tolkien gave it in his works, where he referenced humans, dwarves et al. as being different "races".

Yes, if D&D were invented whole-cloth today, the term "race" might not be used, but it's not like Gygax just ignored the meaning of the word when he used it, he was using it in the context it was used by the 20th century fantasy literature that inspired D&D.

In this scenario D&D just came out, so in context it's not a niche definition, it's one author in England using a word incorrectly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In this scenario D&D just came out, so in context it's not a niche definition, it's one author in England using a word incorrectly.

This supposes that somehow race is a broadly used fantasy term because of D&D, not because of Tolkien, and that without D&D other fantasy authors wouldn’t have kept using the term.

You’re also not really even correct about his usage being incorrect, so this whole idea is pretty strange.

Whether race would likely be a term depends on whether the game were developed by people plugged in to the very current culture, or people more stuck in even the 2000’s, where people weren’t as broadly annoyed by the fantasy usage of the term.

 

[wingsandsword]

In this scenario D&D just came out, so in context it's not a niche definition, it's one author in England using a word incorrectly.

Tolkien wasn't using the word "race" wrong, people now just focus far too narrowly on one or two specific definitions of "race" that are obsolete.

Except there are dictionary definitions of the term "race" that would apply to D&D character races.

A quick search at dictionary.com shows the following definitions for "race" as a noun that could apply to a D&D character race:

Definitions for "race"

"any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc."

"a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic lineage"

"a socially constructed category of identification based on physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture"

Any of which could plausibly describe D&D elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, etc. as distinct from humans.

. . .and the caveat in the dictionary that some of the definitions of race can be seen as obsolete by the idea that there's no biological distinction between human races goes right out the window when there's the vast objective physical differences in D&D character races (such as general lack of interfertility between character races, wildly different lifespans, and the fact that some are objectively stronger or more agile than others by the fact they have stat modifiers). Trying to pretend that the fact that "race" with regards to human beings is a subjective social construct, while D&D character races have vastly more differences among them than humans do and they include objective physical distinctions is focusing entirely on a single, specific definition of the term and ignoring the rest of them.

 

[wingsandsword]

I suppose the next question is, where did D&D get classes from? Were they totally from wargames and Tolkien? Personally, I don't think that classes would be totally absent. There are definitely enough class-like tropes in other stories available at the time. Wizards, knights in shining armor, thieves and brigands, healers, alchemists, etc.

I think the idea of eliminating classes was more that the game might be more broadly skill based than class-based.

Most tabletop RPG's made in the last 30 years that are not in the D&D/d20 design lineage have moved away from games that have rigidly defined "character classes" in favor of an a-la-carte set of abilities and skills characters can select.

They might still have wizards, knights, thieves etc., but not in rigid, pre-defined "classes".

 

[Faolyn]

I think the idea of eliminating classes was more that the game might be more broadly skill based than class-based.

Most tabletop RPG's made in the last 30 years that are not in the D&D/d20 design lineage have moved away from games that have rigidly defined "character classes" in favor of an a-la-carte set of abilities and skills characters can select.

They might still have wizards, knights, thieves etc., but not in rigid, pre-defined "classes".

I agree with that. I think that there would be classes, but they'd be skill/"feat"-based, not level-based.