D&D General why do we not have an arcane half caster?

[Tales and Chronicles]

Riffing off my idea of the half-sorcerer, maybe Metamagic. And riffing further off the idea of a binder/spellbreaker, what about Metamagic that you can perform on other people’s spells? Enhance your allies’ magic and weaken your opponents’, without directly countering or dispelling them (though I imagine they’d have those on their spell list as well.)

Maybe as a reaction when an ally uses a spell slot within 30 of the PC?

There's also the new Wild barbarian's feature that allows to replenish an ally's spell slot X times per long rest. That would be awesome.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I seem to remember the 4e swordmage had a lot of teleport stuff for its focus. Which is very different to paladin and ranger who have smite and hunters mark as their definiting traits.

Especially as the prior signature ability, spellstrike, is now done via the paladin/ranger spells.

 

[cbwjm]

No, Mr. Eldritch Knight, you do not.

I found myself frustrated with 5E’s lack of a true half-caster class, and ended up making my own. EldritchKnight, Bladesinger, and several more concepts became subclasses under it (including the chi warrior, for making a wuxia fighter and book of 9 swords-like characters).

I started on the same sort of class a while ago. This thread made me open it back up to see how far I got, still a few high level abilities that need adding but I could probably play it up to level 10.

 

[Gadget]

I don't think I have much to add to the august reasoning and arguments already put forward here. But I will put forward one point: I agree with those that mention the spell list as being a key part of the mechanics.

• One of the things that makes the Paladin & Ranger work (with some detractors for the later) is that they have their own spell list with unique spells. There is some overlap of course, but this does much to give a class its own unique identity, feel and style. Recently, it seems WOTC has moved away from this, with more spells available to more classes and poaching another class's spell list available through a variety of options. Of course it helps that Paladin & Ranger are half casters as well.
• A big failure of the Eldritch Knight, as has been pointed out, is that they just use the wizard spell list, with some limitations on spell schools. While this limitation may be thematic, and I don't object on principle, it does not work out well in practice. Especially the Evocation limitation, as evocation spells in 5e quickly fall by the wayside as the levels rise as a result of how spell scaling works. The EK, already late and slow in acquiring spells due to being a 1/3 caster, quickly ends up bringing a knife to a gunfight so to speak. Thus we see how a mechanic designed to limit the LFQW ends up hurting the AHC (if we can even call the EK a AHC attempt).

 

[Mind of tempest]

Brainstorming here, so apologies for being somewhat stream of consciousness.

If arcane is traditionally held to be in opposition to divine, than it makes sense that the arcane half-caster would be in opposition to the paladin, which is an extremely strong trope with tons of identification as the "divine warrior".

So aesthetically, the paladin is very much tied to sword and board, heavy armor, mounted knight visualizations. Themes of faith, endurance, and protection, lots of radiant light imagery. So let's reverse it, but stay on a warrior thematic without going full dark knight.

No shield, no armor. Dueling weapon or big weapon. Protected by skill and magical potency, not armor. Evades, parries, and counters, doesn't endure big hits. (Trope precedent: Avenger, bladesinger. Contrast with spellsword, abjurant champion, possibly heavy armor/Str as subclass theme.)

Weapon possibly imbued or empowered by arcane energy (Precedent: Black blade magus, swordmage, hexblade warlock). Magic focused on mobility, aggression, spell strikes with weapons. Haste a must (Precedent: 3.5 swiftblade). Paladin heals and protects, AHC is more offensive, but still has some support. Focus on elemental, force, dimensional spells (Precedent: swordmage).

Paladin leans lawful good (as a trope), AHC leans towards chaotic. Liberator and seeker, as opposed to protector and champion. Like paladin, warrior first, caster second. Thematic of warrior who has some innate magic because of their natural talent, not a mage who has bent their magic towards fighting. Bladesinger, sword bard, hexblade already have "caster who picked up fighting tricks" trope covered.

Possible subclasses: Templar (anti-magic/magebreaker), Enhanced (imbued with magic, possibly against their will), Swiftblade (focused on mobility and teleportation).

part of that is too much of the elf class from swords coast book.

but I think we are getting at least several ideas for sub classes.

medium armour with a blade the swordmage/dusk blade descendant.

lightly armoured with skill as savour.

I request at least one heavily armoured one a walking tank an arcane juggernaut of steel and death.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I don't think I have much to add to the august reasoning and arguments already put forward here. But I will put forward one point: I agree with those that mention the spell list as being a key part of the mechanics.

• One of the things that makes the Paladin & Ranger work (with some detractors for the later) is that they have their own spell list with unique spells. There is some overlap of course, but this does much to give a class its own unique identity, feel and style. Recently, it seems WOTC has moved away from this, with more spells available to more classes and poaching another class's spell list available through a variety of options. Of course it helps that Paladin & Ranger are half casters as well.
• A big failure of the Eldritch Knight, as has been pointed out, is that they just use the wizard spell list, with some limitations on spell schools. While this limitation may be thematic, and I don't object on principle, it does not work out well in practice. Especially the Evocation limitation, as evocation spells in 5e quickly fall by the wayside as the levels rise as a result of how spell scaling works. The EK, already late and slow in acquiring spells due to being a 1/3 caster, quickly ends up bringing a knife to a gunfight so to speak. Thus we see how a mechanic designed to limit the LFQW ends up hurting the AHC (if we can even call the EK a AHC attempt).

Even if EK could access every single spell in the wizard list and wasn't restricted in school, people still wouldn't like it as a swordmage replacement. In fact it's called the bladesinger. The reason for this is despite wizard having an absolutely massive list of spells, those spells are not setup to blend with martial ability. You still end up with the cast spell at one thing, then hit thing with mundane weapon. While paladin/ranger can hit things with their enspelled weapon due to their spell lists.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

part of that is too much of the elf class from swords coast book.

but I think we are getting at least several ideas for sub classes.

medium armour with a blade the swordmage/dusk blade descendant.

lightly armoured with skill as savour.

I request at least one heavily armoured one a walking tank an arcane juggernaut of steel and death.

Elemental based swordmage is one I'd really like to see. Would work great thematically with genasi.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Elemental based swordmage is one I'd really like to see. Would work great thematically with genasi.

so shed loads of elemental damage spells for at least one subclass?

 

[cbwjm]

I hate when people shoot down an idea because they can't think of "the story" of a class. You could take a lot of the story from the paladin and apply it to a fighter/mage class, replacing the holy or divine components for arcane magic. You could also take some of the ranger's story and say that they patrol the borders of civilisation defending it from otherworldly threats. You can look at past editions, all with various kits and classes and come up with a story, bladesingers as knights errant, abjurant champions as defenders of the king, it really isn't that difficult. The only reason paladin and ranger have such a strong standing is because they were in from the early years but instead of a single class, fighter/mage used a multiclass. Had Gary decided to make a single arcane fighter class right in the beginning then we'd likely have one now as it would have been stuck in the consciousness of players.

As for paladin and ranger having a "story" my guess is that new players coming into the hobby only know it because they it in the PHB. A lot of people have no clue what a paladin is unless it's explained to them because they aren't part of the hobby and you'd be able to explain it to people in much the same way as an arcane fighter class: it's a knight that uses magic.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I hate when people shoot down an idea because they can't think of "the story" of a class. You could take a lot of the story from the paladin and apply it to a fighter/mage class, replacing the holy or divine components for arcane magic. You could also take some of the ranger's story and say that they patrol the borders of civilisation defending it from otherworldly threats. You can look at past editions, all with various kits and classes and come up with a story, bladesingers as knights errant, abjurant champions as defenders of the king, it really isn't that difficult. The only reason paladin and ranger have such a strong standing is because they were in from the early years but instead of a single class, fighter/mage used a multiclass. Had Gary decided to make a single arcane fighter class right in the beginning then we'd likely have one now as it would have been stuck in the consciousness of players.

As for paladin and ranger having a "story" my guess is that new players coming into the hobby only know it because they it in the PHB. A lot of people have no clue what a paladin is unless it's explained to them because they aren't part of the hobby and you'd be able to explain it to people in much the same way as an arcane fighter class: it's a knight that uses magic.

paladins do tend to end up described as just crusaders with magic which is kind of what they are.