D&D 5E RIP alignment

[darjr]

I guess we will find out in another couple of months when the previews of the new Ravenloft book start coming out. Will the creatures and Darklords in there who are obviously evil still be shown that way? Or is Strahd now just some poor, confused person who identifies as a vampire?

@Mistwell I guess I’m just over the top huh?

 

[Charlaquin]

It helps with laying out the philosophical dispositions of the Outer Planes.

Does it, though? The philosophical dispositions of the outer planes are pretty well-described, with or without a two-word shorthand. We know how demons behave in contrast to devils, in contrast to daemons, etc. Is the alignment label truly necessary for that cosmic system to function and make sense? I don’t think it is, personally.

 

[Charlaquin]

Just go back to the actually useful 4E versions instead of the silly alignment-based cosmology.

Eh, I love the world axis as much as any 4e fan, but planescape fans should be allowed to have their fun too. I just don’t think either system really needs alignment.

 

[darjr]

Sans alignment would give factions more narrative freedom.

 

[bedir than]

Or is Strahd now just some poor, confused person who identifies as a vampire?

I'll point you to the 3rd sentence of his monster block description in Curse of Strahd

Reread chapter 1, “Into the Mists”, to understand his personality and goals.

There's pages about his personality. Why would you ignore that?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

arguments about removing them from stat blocks ring like many other arguments

That would not be me.

I understood but didn’t agree with gender-based stat mods, while simultaneously understanding but agreeing with species-based stat mods.

 

[Charlaquin]

That would not be me,

I understood but didn’t agree with gender-based stat mods, while simultaneously understanding but agreeing with species-based stat mods.

But do you understand the broader point he’s making that the arguments for and against racial stat mods are practically identical to the arguments for and against gender-based stat mods?

 

[Flamestrike]

The current PHB enshrines alignment as a default characteristic (and explicitly states that it's an inborn trait for some creatures).

Page reference for that?

 

[overgeeked]

Page reference for that?

Page 122. Three relevant paragraphs.

“A typical creature in the worlds of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS has an alignment, which broadly describes its moral and personal attitudes. Alignment is a combination of two factors: one identifies morality (good, evil, or neutral), and the other describes attitudes toward society and order (lawful, chaotic, or neutral). Thus, nine distinct alignments define the possible combinations.”

“For many thinking creatures, alignment is a moral choice. Humans, dwarves, elves, and other humanoid races can choose whether to follow the paths of good or evil, law or chaos. According to myth, the good-aligned gods who created these races gave them free will to choose their moral paths, knowing that good without free will is slavery.”

“The evil deities who created other races, though, made those races to serve them. Those races have strong inborn tendencies that match the nature of their gods. Most orcs share the violent, savage nature of the orc god, Gruumsh, and are thus inclined toward evil. Even if an orc chooses a good alignment, it struggles against its innate tendencies for its entire life. (Even half-orcs feel the lingering pull of the orc god's influence.)”

 

[Flamestrike]

But do you understand the broader point he’s making that the arguments for and against racial stat mods are practically identical to the arguments for and against gender-based stat mods?

I have less problem with sex based (not gender based) stat mods than I do with racial ones.

Sex is a biological characteristic (as opposed to gender, which is a social construct). Sexual dimorphism is a real thing. This is why we don't do combined sports, and break them down into male and female competitions.

Note I distinguish between sex and gender. Being born with a biological sex, doesn't make one the identical gender. Those two things are separate.

Race OTOH, is an entirely social construct (often with arbitrary biological traits attached at random via social agreement in an ad-hoc manner).

That said, I really don't see the point in any of them if they get in the way of a person creating a character protagonist they want to play in a game (you want to play a really strong woman or halfling able to bench 400kgs+? Go nuts.)

I also see a massive problem in ability mods for gender/sex and race/ethnicity when those 'modifiers' represent bias and sexism/ racism (dark skinned races/ ethnic groups getting penalties to Intelligence, Women getting bonuses to Charisma or Empathy etc), and the implications contained therein, and as such I prefer it when they dont exist at all.