D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[dave2008]

If it is required to remove more than half of the classes in the Player's Handbook in order to get the proper "feel" for the Greyhawk setting... WotC is not going to bother to make a setting book for it.

That is my fear as well. But I agree. Though they could say: If you want to play a wizard, cleric, bard, etc. you must multiclass into that class and can do so only once every 4 levels (or whatever). That way you could still use on the caster classes, but keep the magic fairly low. Not my preferred approach, but it would let me use the caster classes.

 

[Mort]

I think he was pitching as rebooting it as a low-magic setting. Not that it was one. That is the pitch to resurrect the setting.

Greyhawk as a low magic setting would just be so odd (to me). High magic is just baked into the setting!

To re-imagine it as a low magic setting would require a pretty big restructuring - to the point of why bother with Greyahawk at all?

 

[TwoSix]

That is my fear as well. But I agree. Though they could say: If you want to play a wizard, cleric, bard, etc. you must multiclass into that class and can do so only once every 4 levels (or whatever). That way you could still use on the caster classes, but keep the magic fairly low. Not my preferred approach, but it would let me use the caster classes.

I think there's a few different ways to implement low-magic. My personal feeling is that cutting down PC capability in regards to magic isn't the way to go for even a gritty reboot of Greyhawk; that having high level magic users is a core part of the Greyhawk feel. I would rather see the setting just use low-frequency magic; casters, particularly high level casters are rare in the setting but the PCs can achieve those ranks.

A grittier reboot of Greyhawk with AiME levels of magic is also something that could be done, but not something I would personally advocate for.

 

[dave2008]

Greyhawk as a low magic setting would just be so odd (to me). High magic is just baked into the setting!

To re-imagine it as a low magic setting would require a pretty big restructuring - to the point of why bother with Greyahawk at all?

I think the issue is we have different ideas of what is a "low magic" setting. You can have powerful magic users and magic in a low magic setting, IMO.

Now, as for how or why? There are lots of reasons/methods.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

However, what @Snarf Zagyg is talking about is to make Greyhawk something unique and interesting to the GoT and Witcher segment. Personally, I find the idea of D&D setting designed to be low magic (like AiME) very interesting. I would like to see rules, guidelines, and restrictions in a book that makes something other than the kitchen sink approach of FR and Eberron. I think that is interesting.

Exactly. I think for Greyhawk to succeed moving forward, it needs something to differentiate it.

Again, I am not saying that my idea is the end-all, be-al (although I tend to be in favor of things I like!), and I'd love to see other pitches.

Heck, they could go the other way- Greyhawk as the gonzo setting. Crashed spaceships. Clones on the moon(s). Barriers between the prime material planes so thin that there are portals to alternate realities. Etc. Greyhawk as the ultimate re-mix.

Again, so long as it is good and interesting, it will succeed. Quality tends to win out.

 

[Umbran]

So, as I mentioned in another thread, there were two ways to handle Greyhawk (IMO):

Two solutions-

1. Re-issue the old stuff. Just some sort of fancy "collector set" with reprinted big ol' Darlene Maps and charge a ton of money. It won't attract the new gamers, but will keep the olds happy, and would "celebrate" the setting. Of course, it will also result in the death of it ... given the lack of new gamers playing it, but still!

2. Make something good.

If the original stuff isn't considered "good", why try to resurrect it?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If the original stuff isn't considered "good", why try to resurrect it?

From the remainer of the post that you did not quote:

To expand on that-

Sure, Hasbro can always make a super-deluxe edition for the 50th anniversary and sell it for lots of money. Just include a fancy big ol' version of the Darlene map and the original, pre-85 info, and that will make the majority of the grognards super happy. If you include some sort of supplement that includes and expands on the 3e timeline and lore in a well-done manner (without trampling on the Gygax "core") then you've got, what, 95% of old-school Greyhawk fans on board?

But then it's done. And, tbh, that does a disservice both to young D&D fans, and to Hasbro. Let me explain.

Imagine if, in the late 80s, Paramount had said, "Sure, people liked the old Star Trek. But who really cares any more? Let's just keep milking the olds with Spock ears. Don't bother rebooting it. Who would care about a New Generation?" Well, they would have lost some valuable IP and history. Not to mention an entire streaming service (seriously, CBS All Access and Paramount+ are basically carried by Star Trek and 90s nostalgia.... SHUT UP BEAVIS!).

Greyhawk is the ur-setting for D&D (yeah, yeah, Blackmoor, City State). To lose Greyhawk is to lose an invaluable piece of D&D history. From the names of so many spells (however stupid, MELF) to items and artifacts, to famous historical people- it's all there. I think it's great that we have young fans coming in and putting their own stamp on the game; but many of them also love re-discovering the roots, and understanding where it all came from.

As such, a rebooted Greyhawk, one that carried bits of the past forward while being attractive (in whatever way) to a newer generation, would be beneficial to the game. To the IP owners and the fans. A way to reconnect the past and the present.

 

[Mort]

I think the issue is we have different ideas of what is a "low magic" setting. You can have powerful magic users and magic in a low magic setting, IMO.

Sure - "low magic" isn't necessarily well defined or has one definition.

But my point was - no matter how you define it - Greyhawk wasn't it. High powered spells, high powered magic items (with access to those items). Many, and varied spellcasters, heck most of the namedropped NPCs are wizards, clerics, fighter-mages etc. Lots of heavy magic locations etc.

It just REALLY doesn't vibe with low magic (at least to me).

And I think if you tried to remarket as a low magic setting - the feel would just be off. \

Could it be done? Possibly, but it would be easier with a new setting.

Now, as for how or why? There are lots of reasons/methods.

Sure, but if you're going to revive/remarket Greyhawk - I, personally, don't think low magic is the way to go.

 

[Umbran]

From the remainer of the post that you did not quote:

That doesn't actually answer my question, but as you will.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Sure, but if you're going to revive/remarket Greyhawk - I, personally, don't think low magic is the way to go.

Based on conversations I have had, I think that the majority of people that are Greyhawk fans find this to be an acceptable approach, and the main point is that newer players would find this to be a differentiating and interesting factor.

This is roughly similar to someone saying, "TNG isn't real Star Trek because Picard doesn't solve problems by either ripping his shirt and beating them with his fists or trying to sleep with them."