D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[The Glen]

Hasbro does not consign IP to the Dustbin of History. If Hasbro thinks they can make money off of it they will re-release it somehow. A video game, a board game, a line of stuffed animals whatever they think will make money. And if they don't own the rights they will buy it. Hasbro does not part with licenses. Hasbro till all are one

 

[jmartkdr2]

You see, that's where I disagree. I think that there is a benefit to the younger fans. But there is also a massive benefit to Hasbro.

When you think of D&D as a brand, then the reason for reviving Greyhawk should become obvious. At least, it is to me in terms of the IP.

Look at two of the most recent books; yes, Mordenkainen and Tasha (Iggwilv) can span the planes, but both of them have their historical roots in Greyhawk- one of them as Gygax's PC.

Some of the most notable people and personages came from Greyhawk, no matter how much other settings have appropriated them.
Vecna.
Kas.
Acererak.
Iuz.
Keraptis.

It's hard to even understand some "generic" lore, such as the story of Grazzt, without understanding Greyhawk (Iuz, Iggwilv, Eclavdra).

If you're looking for Bigby's hand spells- that's Greyhawk.
If you want to know about handy haversacks or everfull purses- that's Greyhawk.
If you need a tiny hut? That's Greyhawk.
If you're looking for the silly names that you may not even realize are silly (Melf, Drawmij, Rary, Tenser, Otiluke) - that's Greyhawk.

Want to know about Lum the Mad and his betrayal by his former general? That's Greyhawk.
(Also, what is it about your most trusted lieutenant betraying you in Greyhawk?)

You get the idea. There is so much PURE IP GOODNESS to keep alive and to monetize.

I am not saying that my way is the right way- there are a number of ways to do this. But not doing something with the setting that continues to have tendrils (named tendrils) throughout D&D seems like a wasted opportunity.

I may not be a huge fan of Forgotten Realms, for example, finding it bland, but I also know that there is a ton of lore and Hasbro would be crazy to put it in the trashbin of history because the kids today find Elminster stupid.

The IP value of Greyhawk is weakened by the spit ownership, though. Hasbro can do pretty much whatever it likes with most classic settings, but using Greyhawk as a whole has additional hurdles, unless they manage to buy the rights completely. If all that took was cash, I think they would have done that by now. All the cool stuff they could pull form it, has been.

This is probably the biggest hurdle to doing anything. The other reason to not do anything is the fact that they can do other things instead, many of which might be more attractive options.

It's a bit like the John Carter of Mars IP: really interesting to look into if you're a fan of pulp sci-fi and fantasy, not a bad story on it's own merits, and very important to the history of both Sci-Fi and Fantasy, but not in itself a valuable, sellable IP. People won't by your book/game/movie because it's got John Carter in it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The IP value of Greyhawk is weakened by the spit ownership, though. Hasbro can do pretty much whatever it likes with most classic settings, but using Greyhawk as a whole has additional hurdles, unless they manage to buy the rights completely. If all that took was cash, I think they would have done that by now. All the cool stuff they could pull form it, has been.

This is probably the biggest hurdle to doing anything. The other reason to not do anything is the fact that they can do other things instead, many of which might be more attractive options.

It's a bit like the John Carter of Mars IP: really interesting to look into if you're a fan of pulp sci-fi and fantasy, not a bad story on it's own merits, and very important to the history of both Sci-Fi and Fantasy, but not in itself a valuable, sellable IP. People won't by your book/game/movie because it's got John Carter in it.

The IP actually isn't that confusing.

When Gygax was ousted, he had to give up almost all of the rights to the Greyhawk brand and IP. That's why TSR (and later, WOTC) kept publishing Greyhawk material.

Gygax kept Gord, Zagyg, and maybe one or two other things. He lost everything else, including the Campaign Setting and even his own PCs. That's why the last Gord book has Gygax blowing up Oerth. Bitter much?

Obviously, there's the Castle and original Gygax dungeons* (Castle Zagyg), but there aren't any strong IP reasons preventing Hasbro from continuing to make bank.

*It is continually unclear if there ever could be a real release of these, given that they changed during play. Obviously, Rob Kuntz is releasing more material and announced the same here.

 

[Minigiant]

However, what @Snarf Zagyg is talking about is to make Greyhawk something unique and interesting to the GoT and Witcher segment. Personally, I find the idea of D&D setting designed to be low magic (like AiME) very interesting. I would like to see rules, guidelines, and restrictions in a book that makes something other than the kitchen sink approach of FR and Eberron. I think that is interesting.

The problem is in GOT, the politics is the fun part but in Greyhawk the politics is the annoying part.

That's the issue with low magic settings, by taking out the over the top fantasy elements, you need to add another genre to fill out the game.

When you turn down one dial you must turn up another or risk boredom. It takes more work to do actual low magic settings as you are actually writing a drama, comedy, action epic, tragedy, etc..

You get historic media when you don't. And purely historic or alternate historic stories, shows, books and movies are super niche.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Hmm. Greyhawk has long been the prisoner in the Tower of London who is paraded forth on specially contrived occasions and that the nobility feigns respect for while the commoners react to same with tears or respectful but downcast looks.

Greyhawk is in fact the biggest tragedy in RPG publishing history; and its many splintered remains are equal to a shattered and scattered jigsaw puzzle.

Necessity created it, hubris and politics killed it before allowing it to mature and make its mark. May it rest in peace.

 

[grimslade]

Hmm. Greyhawk has long been the prisoner in the Tower of London who is paraded forth on specially contrived occasions and that the nobility feigns respect for while the commoners react to it with tears or respectful but downcast looks.

Greyhawk is in fact the biggest tragedy in RPG publishing history; and its many splintered remains are equal to a shattered and scattered jigsaw puzzle.

Necessity created it, hubris and politics killed it before allowing it to mature and make its mark. May it rest in peace.

Aw, Rob but I want it. It may be a shambling zombie monstrosity, but I lurvs it so...

 

[The Glen]

The IP actually isn't that confusing.

When Gygax was ousted, he had to give up almost all of the rights to the Greyhawk brand and IP. That's why TSR (and later, WOTC) kept publishing Greyhawk material.

Gygax kept Gord, Zagyg, and maybe one or two other things. He lost everything else, including the Campaign Setting and even his own PCs. That's why the last Gord book has Gygax blowing up Oerth. Bitter much?

Obviously, there's the Castle and original Gygax dungeons* (Castle Zagyg), but there aren't any strong IP reasons preventing Hasbro from continuing to make bank.

*It is continually unclear if there ever could be a real release of these, given that they changed during play. Obviously, Rob Kuntz is releasing more material and announced the same here.

If there is a copyright issue it will more likely be with Blackmoor and the Arneson estate.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If there is a copyright issue it will more likely be with Blackmoor and the Arneson estate.

Eh, I don't think so. Given the continued publication throughout his lifetime, I'm assuming that the final settlement had any necessary assignation of rights in exchange for the agreed-upon royalties.

And seeing that WoTC cleared up any issues and continued with Greyhawk after 3e, I don't know what it would be. Obviously, if they tried to bring in his old material into the area of Blackmoor (Egg of Coot, etc.), maybe.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Aw, Rob but I want it. It may be a shambling zombie monstrosity, but I lurvs it so...

Ah. So you would be pleased with a Franken-Hawk, then? Good ole Victor was at first pleased with his creation as well.

 

[Jaeger]

If it is required to remove more than half of the classes in the Player's Handbook in order to get the proper "feel" for the Greyhawk setting... WotC is not going to bother to make a setting book for it.

This also goes for playable PC races as well...

Some of the most notable people and personages came from Greyhawk, no matter how much other settings have appropriated them.
...
You get the idea. There is so much PURE IP GOODNESS to keep alive and to monetize.

Except it already has been. By being appropriated by other settings...

Hasbro does not consign IP to the Dustbin of History. If Hasbro thinks they can make money off of it they will re-release it somehow. A video game, a board game, a line of stuffed animals whatever they think will make money. And if they don't own the rights they will buy it. Hasbro does not part with licenses. Hasbro till all are one

Hasbro/WOTC are not releasing a Greyhawk setting.

They will not release a setting where any part of the three core books has to be trimmed back.

Any setting they release will contain everything in the three core books. That has been the D&D setting m-o since 3e.

They will not release any setting that will be a direct competitor to FR.

Greyhawk would be a competing high-fantasy setting by the time you got done 5e-izing it according to WOTC corp guidelines.

Hasbro will not part with the GH license. And since they will not re-boot it, and they will never sell it; they will sit on it so that no one else can make money on it.