D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[Ralif Redhammer]

Eight pages in, this is what I meant about the difficulty of deciding what a good Greyhawk product would look like. Low vs. High Magic, Grimdark vs. Gonzo, Humanocentric vs. Standard D&D, Clash of Kingdoms and Armies or Small Potato Sword & Sorcery Adventurers, and so on. If you cannot nail down what the essence of Greyhawk is, you cannot release a good Greyhawk setting for 5e. Case in point: most people use the 3e Forgotten Realms campaign guide and not the 4e version, and most of the changes introduced in 4e have since been reverted.

If you ask me why consensus on what Greyhawk is is so varied, it's because it's generally been more bare-bones than other settings. Much of what a person thinks of as Greyhawk is what came to life at their table; official canon was often scant, or even contradictory.

 

[dave2008]

They will not release a setting where any part of the three core books has to be trimmed back.

Well they already have, perhaps you didn't pick Theros?

Regardless, I think you could reboot GH and not trim anything from the PHB. In fact, it might even want to add some classes at least. You could even accomplish this with the proposed low-magic, Witcher / GoT slant as suggested by the OP. You don't need to trim things to make GH work, IMO.

Any setting they release will contain everything in the three core books. That has been the D&D setting m-o since 3e.

Again, from Theros:

They will not release any setting that will be a direct competitor to FR.

The point is to make GH something different. That is basically the whole point of the OP. Don't worry about the past, make GH something unique and fresh (compared to other D&D settings). Also, how are Eberron, Ravnica, Theros, and now Ravenloft not direct competitors with Forgotten Realms now?

Greyhawk would be a competing high-fantasy setting by the time you got done 5e-izing it according to WOTC corp guidelines.

Hasbro will not part with the GH license. And since they will not re-boot it, and they will never sell it; they will sit on it so that no one else can make money on it.

I think you probably correct in the WotC, honestly Hasbro doesn't play into this, will not reboot GH. But it is still fun to think about how they could.

 

[jmartkdr2]

question how do we mean low magic?

Spells cannot be targeted at flying creatures.

 

[dave2008]

The problem is in GOT, the politics is the fun part but in Greyhawk the politics is the annoying part.

That's the issue with low magic settings, by taking out the over the top fantasy elements, you need to add another genre to fill out the game.

When you turn down one dial you must turn up another or risk boredom. It takes more work to do actual low magic settings as you are actually writing a drama, comedy, action epic, tragedy, etc..

You get historic media when you don't. And purely historic or alternate historic stories, shows, books and movies are super niche.

Possibly. Our group almost always plays low magic games, but I already know our tastes are pretty niche. Also, I don't think you need to focus on politics to make a low magic Got/Witcher style game fun. I know we don't get involved with politics. I don't know why people don't enjoy being a hero with a sword defeating monsters anymore, but we sure do!

 

[dave2008]

Hasbro/WOTC's track record is not an opinion.

But didn't you also say they would never release a setting that didn't use everything from the PHB? That was their MO since 3e?

They will not release a setting where any part of the three core books has to be trimmed back.

Yep you did. Of course you are wrong about that as I already pointed out about Theros. So based on your track record...

 

[Mind of tempest]

Possibly. Our group almost always plays low magic games, but I already now our tastes are pretty niche. Also, I don't think you need to focus on politics to make a low magic Got/Witcher style game fun. I know we don't get involved with politics. I don't know people don't enjoy be a hero with a sword defeating monsters, but we sure do!

how do you know your niche or is it more that people do not know how to do it right?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

And Hasbro/WOTC has consistently proven that they will not put out competing settings.

Let's see ... to date, we have the following official settings in 5e in publications .. not including setting that are only referred to in rulebooks (DL, DS, etc.):

Eberron (Official Setting Book)
Forgotten Realms (SCAG, APs)
Greyhawk (AP, multiple references in rulebooks)
Other Planes (BG: Descent into Avernus)
Ravenloft (AP, upcoming setting)
Ravnica (Official Setting Book)
Theros (Official Setting Book)
Wildemount (Official Setting Book)

This does not include additional free settings released as pdfs by WoTC such as the six MtG settings they have on-line.

So, yeah, they've been putting out a steady stream of settings.

And, with the exception of Wildemount, all of them are their OWN IP. Weird, huh?

 

[dave2008]

Next, about two years ago, I wrote Mike Mearls about rebooting Greyhawk. My response was the same Gary and I received in 1997--crickets.

May I suggest you reach out again to someone else at WotC (preferably multiple people) and suggest something GH related for the 50th might be a good idea. We know the plan at least 2 years in advance, so that gives you a bout 6 months to a year to really work on them. Heck, point them to this thread (and many other's here on EnWorld) to show them there is still some interest and viable ways to bring it back!

 

[Minigiant]

Possibly. Our group almost always plays low magic games, but I already now our tastes are pretty niche. Also, I don't think you need to focus on politics to make a low magic Got/Witcher style game fun. I know we don't get involved with politics. I don't know people don't enjoy be a hero with a sword defeating monsters, but we sure do!

My point is that Witcher is barely low magic and GOT is heavily political.

If you turn down the magic of D&D and turn up nothing in return, you won't be able to sell it to many. Greyhawk relies on the high magic setting up the stage and uses the petty politics keep players out of the production.

Taking those out as well is a recipe for boredom at many tables.

 

[dave2008]

how do you know your niche or....

How do I know my group is niche? I guess I don't know 100%, I just go off what I see here on EnWorld and see most people here don't play like we do. Also, to be clear Minigiant made the niche claim, I was just leaning into it.

is it more that people do not know how to do it right?

Do what right? I never claimed anyone was playing D&D incorrectly. I was just stating that I am pretty sure they way my group plays is not the way a lot of people play. Different ways of playing, not correct or incorrect ways of playing.