D&D 5E (2014) Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[hopeless]

Isn't Goodman Games doing the 5e version of the Temple of Elemental Evil?
Is it possible the reason Greyhawk hasn't been released as a setting is because Hasbro is benefiting from other companies doing 5e version of scenarios from that setting and others?

 

[Mind of tempest]

As others have noted, it's not about what you can't do - if you want people interested who don't have nostalgia, the setting needs to let them do something well that they can't do well with the existing tools. Ideally, it should be both thematically appropriate for the setting as established and something that can easily be ported over to other settings. For best results, it should also be a player option to maximize sales.

Stronghold/leadership rules could work, but most 'setting books' have included new races and/or subclasses.

so we got one thing, and we need some races, subclasses or a whole class to get it sellable?
perfectly do able but what does it have that is worth putting in?

 

[dave2008]

This is a good point. To extend the analogy with Greyhawk, Theros removed 7 races from the PHB (which are extremely common in fantasy properties) and replaced them with 5 races that aren’t commonly seen in tabletop games.

I would suggest that this, plus a couple of other elements from the book (emphasis on piety, gods as major figures in the setting and the Greek mythic inspiration), contribute to making Theros feel different from generic high fantasy.

But to get back to Greyhawk, if we were to limit races (not replace races with different uncommon races) AND also restrict classes, I’m not sure that Greyhawk would have the same success as Theros.

Those are good points. As a DM I care more about DM options (low magic, stongholds, followers, exploration rules, etc.), but I don't think they are likely to sell a setting book that only restricts player options. Is there something from Greyhawk lore that could be added that would be new to 5e?

 

[hopeless]

I recall the Scarlet Brotherhood about that setting, the one time I played we started off at a village that had been cursed and had to escort a prisoner back to Greyhawk only one of the other players executed him rather than risk him escaping to do that again.
Didn't see any reason anyone would want to visit the city of Greyhawk unless it was needed and any DM wouldn't need to.
Found the concept about Blackmoor being more interesting how would you like to play the survivor of a spaceship stranded on this strange world where magic was actually a thing?
Imagine a game set around the survivors colonising this world whilst some are trying to find a way to send a message home for help.
Others are seeking to conquer this world, whilst others are discovering that maybe their presence is a much needed aid?
What say you?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Those are good points. As a DM I care more about DM options (low magic, stongholds, followers, exploration rules, etc.), but I don't think they are likely to sell a setting book that only restricts player options. Is there something from Greyhawk lore that could be added that would be new to 5e?

Sure! There are a number of things that could be added.

Obviously you would want to avoid more specific rules for variant humans, but depending on where we are going with race/ancestry, we could include rules for playable xvarts (an EGG favorite for some reason), Half-Ogres (variant from Dragon), Valley Elves (gag me with a spoon), Duergar (UA), Gray & Wild Elves (Grugach), and Tallefellows. You'd probably different rules for the cambion/Tieflings for Iuz and the Great Kingdom.

You could have additional subclasses by concentrating on regional specialties- the Scarlet Brotherhood with variants of Monk, Thief, and Assassin is obvious, but there are many others.

That's just a start- I'm sure others would add in.

 

[dave2008]

Sure! There are a number of things that could be added.

Obviously you would want to avoid more specific rules for variant humans, but depending on where we are going with race/ancestry, we could include rules for playable xvarts (an EGG favorite for some reason), Half-Ogres (variant from Dragon), Valley Elves (gag me with a spoon), Duergar (UA), Gray & Wild Elves (Grugach), and Tallefellows. You'd probably different rules for the cambion/Tieflings for Iuz and the Great Kingdom.

You could have additional subclasses by concentrating on regional specialties- the Scarlet Brotherhood with variants of Monk, Thief, and Assassin is obvious, but there are many others.

That's just a start- I'm sure others would add in.

Well, I think we have solved all of the problems then. I see no reason a Greyhawk setting couldn't offer something unique and new with options for DMs and Players. Now we just need to convince WotC!

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We should remember all the new PC races and classes from 3.5 Ed are canon in Greyhawk, even the totemist shaman or the darfellan from Stormwrack.

Yes, Hasbro can hire other companies as outsoucers, and this is not wrong when these make a good work. It worked very well with 3.5 Dragonlance.

Saying WotC doesn't need Gh is like Disney saying X-Men aren't neccesary because they are making enough money with the Avengers.

Gr can be useful, for example, to sell a Risk version of D&D, or to test some risky experiment, for example an intercompany crossover (why not D&D skins in Fortnite, Street Fighter or another videogame?).

Maybe a planar rift is discovered in the lake "Nyr Div" toward the astral sea, allowing interplanar trade with other spheres (Nenthir Vale at least, and from this to the rest of multiverse) or islands within the astral sea by skyships.

* Why not a cartoon production based in the parody module "Castle Greyhawk"? Maybe a cosmic power who wants to have fun created a demiplane and send this to different worlds to mock the possible visitors.

* It is not low-magic if the PC need spellcasters and magic item.

* If an "isekai" from the Earth could travel to Oerth the cultural and technology impact would be like Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court".

* What if the Greyhawk wars didn't end by fault of a chronomancer who traveled to the past to save a life but this cause later other to be killed? Or there were visited by a transhuman alien civilitation (Altered Carbone or Eclipse Phase RPG) and they are almost not wellcomed because gods and prophets notice they can cause a lot of troubles, even when their intentions aren't bad. (OMG! an artificier gnome has just invented the 3D printer!!)

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I am certainly thankful that Jim Butcher did not end up writing Dragonlance. He is a writer that I just don't understand the appeal of.

Hickman and Weis are certainly the core of Dragonlance, but one could argue that it's also the art from Elmore, Easley, Parkinson, and Valusek, artists that wouldn't likely have been a part of the project if not for TSR. The images they brought to life were a huge part of the appeal.

Because F-you Hickman and Weis. That's why.

WOTC outright owns the IP. But DL fandom still consider DragonLance to be Hickman and Weis's baby.

That's why Butcher bailed on WOTC when he found out Hickman and Weis had nothing to do with the reboot he was supposed to do.

One thing I might add is that Ice and Fire is a literary setting. There is a world (har) of difference between a setting for a series of novels and a setting for gameplay.

A Song of Ice and Fire is a human only setting with low magic power, extremely low magic frequency, and extremely low magic versatility. However it is a very popular setting due to the thick political drama, layers of romance, displays of action, suspense, mystery, and tragedy, and gripping lore.

Greyhawk 2.0 cant be just "It's D&D but only 2 of you can be a caster or nonhuman. It'll totally be fun guys". Because that puts all the burden on fun on hope.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

Kay. Greyhawk. Spelt proper like now
Mentioned this in my post earlier: D&D 5E - Revising Classic Settings

Never played Greyhawk. Wanted to see what the big deal was. Bought the folio and World of Greyhawk from dmsguild.com
Little put off they were practically the same. Just more gods in the second one

But that's Greyhawk. That's how Wizards should update it. Give each nation and region a similar amount of words. Not a lot of detail so ya'll can make it your own. Since ya'll can do that already with a $10 e-book there needs to be more

Mebbe a little more history. But give it a revising edit. Small tweaks to make it modern. Stuff like adding dragonborn and tieflings. Less focus on colonialism and human expansion/ migration. Just focus on the nations and leave the ethnicities of the empires vague. Make the Invoked Devastation the result of a war between the Kadir Caliphate and the Ad-Zol Imperium (first name pulled from ass cause no details on the ancient Baklunish empire on the wiki. Gee, wonder why) Calling it the Baklunish-Suloise Wars feels like calling something the Caucassian-Arab Wars. Equating their ethnicity with their nationality is all kinds of weird

I suggested fleshing out the Free City of Greyhawk. And giving some dungeon levels underneath Castle Greyhawk. That's the "adventure" in the campaign book. Just a bunch of dungeon levels full of treasure
Since there are no monsters or new races Wizards can add rules for more old school styles of play. Hirelings and henchmen. Kingdom management. Experience for gold
Lookin at Greyhawk Adventures there's another idea for content. The iconic wizards. Give monster entries and new spells from Bigby, Drawmij, Mordenkainen, Nystul, Otiluke, Otto, Rary, and Tenser. Maybe some evil folk like Vecna and Kas as well. And Tasha. Gotta have more Tasha now

 

[Jaeger]

Greyhawk setting books published by WotC:
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer
D&D Gazetteer

Unlike others who would quietly disappear from a thread when proven wrong.

Your knowledge of WOTC publications is far greater than mine!

I publicly stand corrected.


And I see from whence my ignorance came: Both were largely part of the organized play campaign: Living Greyhawk.
I've never even met someone who has done organized play...

And from the blurb on DTRPG on the D&D gazetter (3e):
"In other words, Greyhawk was almost invisible to the average D&D player, despite being the new default setting for the game."

In my case, absolutely true.

I still think for many of the reasons I previously posted that a Greyhawk setting for 5e is still highly unlikely with FR as this editions default setting.

But facts are facts. WOTC could decide to revise past material and publish a book for Greyhawk should they take a notion to.