D&D (2024) bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

[MarkB]

I like the martial take on hobgoblins, but I tend to give them more of a Samurai flavour rather than the Roman legionaries.

It's gnolls that I've never found a good use for.

 

[Don Durito]

There nothing you can do with hobgoblins that doesn't work better if you just use Dwarves.

 

[Charlaquin]

There nothing you can do with hobgoblins that doesn't work better if you just use Dwarves.

Now there’s a bold take. Personally, I don’t think dwarves are exactly ideal candidates for mischievous fae spirits, which is how I like my hobgoblins.

 

[Tonguez]

Now there’s a bold take. Personally, I don’t think dwarves are exactly ideal candidates for mischievous fae spirits, which is how I like my hobgoblins.

Spinning straw into gold, trafficking babies and stomping feet is all possible for Dwarfs too

 

[CleverNickName]

I've always avoided using orcs at all. Even from my earliest days playing D&D (in the late '70s!!!), I felt like they belonged to Tolkien.

Same here. I prefer goblins or kobolds for my low-level adventures, switching to human cultists and bandits as the story progresses. At mid-level, I bring out the Main Villains of the Campaign: so far, I've used vampires, dragons and their dragonborn cultists, and devils; in my next campaign I'm considering using fey.

But if I ever run a LotR campaign, there will be orcs a-plenty.

 

[Don Durito]

Now there’s a bold take. Personally, I don’t think dwarves are exactly ideal candidates for mischievous fae spirits, which is how I like my hobgoblins.

Well no. Not if you take them in that direction. But I've never seen any real support for that in the game.

A militaristic lawful culture? Dwarves work very well for that. Ever since the Scarred Lands setting included the Charduni around the launch of 3e I've pretty much subbed in Dwarves for Hobgoblins where material calls for them.

Take Red Hand of Doom. The hobgoblins in that, from memory anyway, are just there. Why do they worship Tiamat? Because they're Hobgoblins and evil.

Now replace them with Dwarves. Why is there a group of Dwarves that worship Tiamat? Immediately this has more interesting setting implications.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I mean, to each their own - but I explained it pretty easily above: they have an empire across the sea. They've already conquered their neighbors long ago, but only just now reaching where the campaign takes places and beginning to have influence to prepare for some future military and/or cultural invasion. This is something that can either be the focus of a campaign OR just work as a backdrop for why PCs only encounter hobbos occasionally (as I suggested, foreign mercenaries).

Edit to add: And since it is "across the sea" - I have not bothered detailing it beyond "big ideas."

When I had to explain it, I went with "they almost did, it took a last ditch alliance of literally everyone else to stop them. Now they are gaining power and trying to weaken the other kingdoms"

 

[Azzy]

Not sure exactly sure when orcs were changed but I argue they should be changed back

why?
1) orcs have been becoming more and more human like and its made them less interesting plus like drow they are a future problem for an everchanging society
2) if not maybe a variant
3) the orc name is from "pig faced"

Pig-faced orcs were always comical to me. I'm glad they went the way of the do-do.

hobgoblin
1) hobgoblins need something . Over the years kobolds, gnolls, bugbears and even goblins have become more interesting. Kobolds became inventors and the design has greatly improved. Same with gnolls. hobgoblins have been dulled down (they are the military/armored slightly stronger goblin) and often get sort of lumped in with orcs (theres nothing that really jumps out about a hobgoblin)
2) I think they need a change-Maybe they are cannibals, maybe they have a unique spell/ability , give them a distinct appearance (I would make them more like the falmer of elder scrolls-scary)

I always felt that hobgoblins were far more interesting. Because of the art on Keep on the Borderland and in the 1e Monster Manual, I always envisaged them as having a distinctly disciplined samurai-like warrior culture (which has been borne out in later--including current--editions). I do like the admixure to Roman legionaire aspect to them, though.

 

[Azzy]

The Bakemono of Kara-Tur were described as goblinoids but were distinct from goblins, bigger, savage, hooved and with tiny wings?

No, they were pretty much goblins, but had random features (much like the fomor):

"The bakemonos are cousins to the western goblin and in characteristics and habits are quite similar to these creatures. However, unlike the goblin, the bakemonos come in a variety of different shapes and sizes. No two creatures are alike. Skin color varies from brilliant orange and red to deep blue. Physical features range from small stunted wings, hooves, fur, scales, huge noses, feathers, oversized ears, and hunched bodies. The referee should feel free to use his imagination in describing these creatures."

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Now there’s a bold take. Personally, I don’t think dwarves are exactly ideal candidates for mischievous fae spirits, which is how I like my hobgoblins.

That's what elves are for!