The Lost Art of Dungeon-Crawling

There is a certain type of adventure that in recent years seems to have fallen out of popularity: dungeons.

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​

"I Look Up!"​

The release of several old D&D modules got me looking at some of these old original adventures, and they are quite eye-opening on the subject of dungeon design. These are the first games of D&D we played and while some are a little dated, it's easy to see why they kept us playing. While almost everything in those adventures was dangerous, there was magic and mystery in the rooms you found. There were rooms with strange orbs suspended from the ceiling; mysterious indoor gardens full of medicinal plants, poison and monsters; ghostly feasts that share a tragic history; and mysterious keys guarded with fiendish traps.

I think I know why dungeons fell out of vogue. Way back in the early 80s we discovered city adventuring. Modules then became quests or investigations across a cityscape full of NPCs and role-play opportunities with all manner of details and cultures. This new way of gaming outside a maze opened a whole new sandbox. This change in adventure design opened new vistas for adventurers, but crowded out the traditional dungeon crawl as a result.

A Return to Form​

Luckily, in recent years we have seen a more interesting return to dungeons. More designers are coming back to them and trying to break the myth. Mork Borg has its share and a other ‘old school’ games have sought to blow the dust off the idea of raiding underground facilities. Its fun to dive into these lairs once again, and a simple diversion from what has become the usual kind of game. While I’m certainly more on the side of narrative play and character interaction, sometimes it is nice to know that you just need to pick a door rather than work out the villain’s plot and craft an elegant plan (that one of the players may just ignore anyway).

If you are thinking of crafting a dungeon of your own, here's a few pointers.

Give the Place A Reason​

Whether it is an old ruin or an underground laboratory, make sure the dungeon has a reason to exist and some sort of history. A hole in the ground isn’t very interesting so give it a back-story, even just a small one. It might be a tomb, an old ruin creatures have taken over or a lab where magic went wrong. It need not be especially clever, just as long as you can place it in your setting.

A Dungeon Need Not Be an Actual Dungeon​

What you are creating is a place full of rooms linked with doors and corridors, so it need not be underground. A house or a castle is basically the same, as is a sky city, large airship, underwater citadel or even a walled in town (put a roof on real world Venice and you have an epic dungeon).

Don’t Construct It with Only One Path​

When you are making a lot of cool stuff it is very tempting to make sure none of it gets missed. But you should avoid the temptation for having only one path through the dungeon that takes in every room. If the player characters miss out rooms 34-48, you can use them in the next adventure. Nothing is wasted. But if you insist they follow one path you are ruining the fun of exploring a dungeon and taking away the agency of choice. If you offer several different paths, when they enter the room of certain death you can point out with a clear conscience that they didn’t have to open the black door with the skull on the front.

Corridors Are Rooms Too​

Don’t reserve encounters just for rooms. They can happen anywhere in the dungeon, in corridors, on stairwells; anywhere the player characters don’t expect one.

Add Some Mystery Not Just Monsters​

While you will need a few monsters to fight to gain some treasure, put in traps and just weird stuff too. Not everything need be deadly, just something weird to make the player characters think can be fun too, if only to cross a room (the Crystal Maze will be a big help here). With magic in the world you can put some very odd places in a dungeon. Just imagine something that would look strange and enticing when they open the door and then figure out what it does. It might be a room full of glass spheres, a garden with odd looking plants, a table set for a feast with only statues as guests. The weirder the room the more the player characters will be intrigued.

Make Sure There Are A Variety of Encounters​

This relates to the above; don’t rely on one sort of encounter. Make sure you have a mixture of traps, monsters, weird rooms and role play encounters. Try to avoid having the same type of room twice in a row if you can.

Don’t Skimp on the Role-Play​

Even dragons might chat; just because it is a dungeon doesn't mean there are opportunities to role play. Trapped creatures, intelligent monsters under a curse or a contract and even the odd guard might be talked to as easily as fought. You can let the player character make this decision, by who they choose to attack on sight. But remind them that they can talk their way out of situations as well.

Make Every Door Worth Opening​

If you do the job right, each door the player characters come across will fill them with a mixture of fear and anticipation. What lies beyond this door, a trap, a fearful death, untold riches or wild magic? If a room or encounter doesn’t’ feel that interesting to you, cut it from your dungeon. Maybe consider it a little and use it later on when you’ve made it work better. A dungeon need not be a sprawl, and a shorter one has the advantage of potentially allowing the player characters to escape and try another one some other day.

 

[J.Quondam]

Obviously you are filled in on one of our levels from Castle Greyhawk2. There's also an interesting history behind it.

I wish I could say I was! And... interesting history?

 

[overgeeked]

Maybe there's a bit of a disconnect here: I'm certainly not saying that every published dungeon over the last 40 years is a perfect creation. As will all published materials, there are good and bad and not-for-me. But you seem to be saying NO dungeons are anything but combat slogs and that's demonstrably false. But generally, DMs who like running dungeons almost always design their own at some point.

I can only go from what I've experienced or read. I've played through and/or read a wide array of published adventures, including many a dungeon. I don't have experience playing at your table (that I know of). I have played with a fairly wide array of people over the years, so it's possible. In play, I've had exactly zero dungeoncrawls be anything more than almost pure hack-and-slash play with the occasional pit factions against each other interaction play. In reading a sizeable chunk of modules over the years and editions, I've read maybe 3-5 dungeoncrawls that are more than those two tired old tropes.

So to short circuit the loop we're in, how about taking a different approach? Why not tell me what you think makes dungeoncrawls so awesome? A bit of forewarning, endless hack-and-slash play is boring to me and playing dungeon factions against each other is an old trope I've been tired of for about 30 years. If you have something you enjoy that's neither of those things, please tell me all about it. I'd honestly like to know.

 

[Reynard]

I can only go from what I've experienced or read. I've played through and/or read a wide array of published adventures, including many a dungeon. I don't have experience playing at your table (that I know of). I have played with a fairly wide array of people over the years, so it's possible. In play, I've had exactly zero dungeoncrawls be anything more than almost pure hack-and-slash play with the occasional pit factions against each other interaction play. In reading a sizeable chunk of modules over the years and editions, I've read maybe 3-5 dungeoncrawls that are more than those two tired old tropes.

So to short circuit the loop we're in, how about taking a different approach? Why not tell me what you think makes dungeoncrawls so awesome? A bit of forewarning, endless hack-and-slash play is boring to me and playing dungeon factions against each other is an old trope I've been tired of for about 30 years. If you have something you enjoy that's neither of those things, please tell me all about it. I'd honestly like to know.

I thought I had made it clear previously in this thread but I will try and reiterate in brief: a dungeon is a setting, and as such it is a place where adventures happen. Just like with a city or a wilderness, it requires player characters have motivations and goals in order to serve its purpose. Dungeons that seem like slogs from one room to the next are a result of not having those things and thinking the dungeon IS the adventure, rather than WHERE the adventures happen.

 

[carmachu]

In addition to Princes of the Apocalypse, there are several other 5E hardbacks that feature large adventuring environments: Tomb of Annihilation, Storm King's Thunder, Curse of Strahd. Plus the hardbacks that reprint earlier edition adventures, of course.

Besides those, and pathfinder mention before, the OSR various lines have a ton of them. Barr owmaze, stonehell, highfell,gunderholfen, castle of the mad archmage. Easily looking 6 to 10 sitting on my shelf

 

[overgeeked]

I thought I had made it clear previously in this thread but I will try and reiterate in brief: a dungeon is a setting, and as such it is a place where adventures happen. Just like with a city or a wilderness, it requires player characters have motivations and goals in order to serve its purpose. Dungeons that seem like slogs from one room to the next are a result of not having those things and thinking the dungeon IS the adventure, rather than WHERE the adventures happen.

The characters want: loot and experience. Dungeons provide both. Or they just want to explore. That's motivation for being there. Or any other motivation. They could have any goal that involves being in that specific dungeon. Get the key, get the scepter, rescue the prince, return the kidnapped whoever, etc. None of that prevents the vast majority of published dungeons from being boring slogs of kick in the door, kill all the things, kick in the door. It doesn't matter why you're there, if all that is there is combat...that's going to be a boring slog.

As an example, we ran through Dragon Heist and Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Dragon Heist was an absolute blast. The entire group of players was jazzed and excited and raring to go. As a group we did an about face when we got to the dungeon. I played an artificer from Eberron who heard a rumor that there was some kind of ship deep in the dungeon that might be able to get him home. That's a goal and a motivation for delving. Still, it was a boring slog of kick in the door, kill all the things, kick in the door, etc. We made it through the first level and maybe a few rooms of the second level beyond the goblin bazaar before the entire group was sick and tired of delving. And that was with the DM cutting out more than a few pure combat rooms, adding in non-combat stuff, etc.

and thinking the dungeon IS the adventure, rather than WHERE the adventures happen.

That's a distinction that doesn't make a difference.

But none of what you said actually answers my question: what is it about dungeoncrawls specifically that you enjoy?

 

[Hussar]

Did a bit of searching and came up with this extra find. This chap and his group went gonzo with Phandelver, added extra maps and game materials. Very good to see!

Lost Mine of Phandelver Campaign Resources

It is heartening to see the MOUNTAIN of community material that is being added to every single adventure WotC bangs out. If you want a trunk full of high quality stuff, take a look at the Saltmarsh section of DM's Guild and peruse the Reddit and Facebook communities. OMG, you could run Saltmarsh for the next decade and still not run out of material. I'm about to start on Candlekeep Mysteries, and, again, the community is just absolutely rocking.

One of the things about the massive growth of the hobby in the last decade is the freaking explosion of goodies to add to any WotC offering. Meaning that because there is so much stuff there, you can find stuff to fit your group and tastes pretty easily.

 

[Hussar]

I see people just repeating that they're awesome. There's not much in the way of proof. I can point to 40 odd years of combat-focused dungeons that support my assertion that most published dungeons are indeed combat-focused. The best you seem to have is "but they're awesome, I promise." Good for you. Your word doesn't count as proof.

As written? Probably. The writers of modules by and large presume that the party is going to fight stuff in a module. Becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophesy. The designers assume you're going to fight stuff, so, they don't really provide other options.

OTOH, as a DM, you need to understand that published modules are what they are. They have limited page and word count. Just because it says that the monsters have these tactics in combat, doesn't mean that you have to default to combat every time.

So, yes, I understand why people look at published modules, particularly older modules with their very sparse descriptions and advice, and think that the modules are 90% combat. The point is, for those of us who like dungeon crawls, we realize that modules are the starting point, not the finished one.

 

[Reynard]

The characters want: loot and experience. Dungeons provide both. Or they just want to explore. That's motivation for being there. Or any other motivation. They could have any goal that involves being in that specific dungeon. Get the key, get the scepter, rescue the prince, return the kidnapped whoever, etc. None of that prevents the vast majority of published dungeons from being boring slogs of kick in the door, kill all the things, kick in the door. It doesn't matter why you're there, if all that is there is combat...that's going to be a boring slog.

As an example, we ran through Dragon Heist and Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Dragon Heist was an absolute blast. The entire group of players was jazzed and excited and raring to go. As a group we did an about face when we got to the dungeon. I played an artificer from Eberron who heard a rumor that there was some kind of ship deep in the dungeon that might be able to get him home. That's a goal and a motivation for delving. Still, it was a boring slog of kick in the door, kill all the things, kick in the door, etc. We made it through the first level and maybe a few rooms of the second level beyond the goblin bazaar before the entire group was sick and tired of delving. And that was with the DM cutting out more than a few pure combat rooms, adding in non-combat stuff, etc.

That's a distinction that doesn't make a difference.

But none of what you said actually answers my question: what is it about dungeoncrawls specifically that you enjoy?

First of all: Dragon Heist is, in my opinion, unplayable out of the box and while I am glad you enjoyed it, I would bet dollars to donuts that the DM did a lot of work to make it playable.

Second: Dungeon of the Mad Mage is not a good dungeon adventure. Pointing at it and telling me all dungeon adventures are bad because DotMM is bad is just silly.

Finally: you are intentionally ignoring my explanations for what makes a dungeon a good environment to play in so I am not going to repeat myself. You don't like them. You will never like them. You refuse to believe that anyone could like them. Noted.

 

[overgeeked]

As written? Probably. The writers of modules by and large presume that the party is going to fight stuff in a module. Becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophesy. The designers assume you're going to fight stuff, so, they don't really provide other options.

OTOH, as a DM, you need to understand that published modules are what they are. They have limited page and word count. Just because it says that the monsters have these tactics in combat, doesn't mean that you have to default to combat every time.

So, yes, I understand why people look at published modules, particularly older modules with their very sparse descriptions and advice, and think that the modules are 90% combat. The point is, for those of us who like dungeon crawls, we realize that modules are the starting point, not the finished one.

Sure. What I'm asking for is actual examples of what people like about dungeoncrawls. How they change them to make them so enjoyable. So far...nothing.

 

[overgeeked]

First of all: Dragon Heist is, in my opinion, unplayable out of the box and while I am glad you enjoyed it, I would bet dollars to donuts that the DM did a lot of work to make it playable.

I'm sure he did.

Second: Dungeon of the Mad Mage is not a good dungeon adventure. Pointing at it and telling me all dungeon adventures are bad because DotMM is bad is just silly.

Note how I didn't do that. I pointed at 40 some years of terrible dungeoncrawls published by TSR, Wizards, Paizo, etc and said that the vast majority of published dungeoncrawls are terrible because they're 90-95% pure hack-and-slash slogfests.

Finally: you are intentionally ignoring my explanations for what makes a dungeon a good environment to play in so I am not going to repeat myself. You don't like them. You will never like them. You refuse to believe that anyone could like them. Noted.

So far your explanation consists of "I like dungeoncrawls" and "trust me they're good" and a nonsensical statement that the dungeon isn't the adventure, the dungeon is where the adventure takes place.

You have still not managed to say what it is you actually like about dungeoncrawls or even a hint of how you run them to make them not hack-and-slash slogfests or how you do something more than the tired old trope of playing factions off each other. At this point all I can assume is you don't.

Now that we've gone around the loop again...

So to short circuit the loop we're in, how about taking a different approach? Why not tell me what you think makes dungeoncrawls so awesome? A bit of forewarning, endless hack-and-slash play is boring to me and playing dungeon factions against each other is an old trope I've been tired of for about 30 years. If you have something you enjoy that's neither of those things, please tell me all about it. I'd honestly like to know.