D&D General Tucker's Kobolds: worth using in 5e?

[Celebrim]

Agreed 100%.

I always looked at Tucker's Kobolds as utilizing what they had cleverly.

I will have to re read the story in case i missed unfair advantages such as you point out.

Post in thread 'Tucker's Kobolds -- really that tough a challenge?'

Jan 12, 2009

Because poison was so very lethal in OD&D, 1E, and 2E, and if the DM had really wanted Tucker's Kobolds to kill the party, it would have been simple enough:

DM:

A squadron of kobolds with readied hand crossbows with poisoned bolts appears. They have Surprise.
They all fire. 10 incoming poisoned bolts. 5 hit the fighter. Roll five saves versus Poison.

(fighter fails 2 of them, dies.)

That is an example of exactly why 'Tucker's Kobolds' don't ring true to me.

I've adventured as a 12th level character in 1st edition AD&D. A kobold with a hand crossbow even with surprise...

• Celebrim

 

[LordBP]

wasn't half the original point of tucker's kobolds to make the low CR, outclassed monster punch above their weight?

Yes, but my point is, as a DM, when do you stop overtuning the encounter?

Back then, there really wasn't a CR and you learned to run quite often .

My guess is if the DM was military, then he was taking inspiration from the various insurgent wars in the 70-80s and trying to keep the players on their toes.

 

[Celebrim]

They certainly seem capable of it, being possessed of average intelligence and having a natural affinity for traps that even Elves and Dwarves don't possess in their stat blocks.

In 3e the average kobold had Craft (trapmaking) +2. In 1e AD&D at the time "Tucker's Kobolds" were created they had "average (low)" intelligence and no affinity for traps. The affinity for traps was created by the legend of "Tucker's Kobolds". "Darastrixhurthi" is likewise the creation of another changed conception of kobolds, namely that they were a serpent people akin to dragons rather than little dog-like goblins. There are more myths about their origins now than anyone needs, but none of that existed at the time of "Tucker's Kobolds". What did exist was a small impoverished race of simple weapons and wickerwork shields.

In my own game, kobolds evolved into rat-folk (similar by convergent evolution to Warhammer's skavan) based on the fact that in B2 they were allied with giant rats.

"Tucker's Kobolds" are remembered as an example of DM creativity showing that even the weakest monsters could be made tough opponents. In fact, that's not how I read the legend of "Tucker's Kobolds" at all. They are DM PC's that aren't allowed to lose utilizing all the tricks of DM PCs including selective immunity to the rules.

 

[Seramus]

In 1e AD&D at the time "Tucker's Kobolds" were created they had "average (low)" intelligence and no affinity for traps. The affinity for traps was created by the legend of "Tucker's Kobolds".

That goes back to folklore myths of the kobolds and their habit of performing pranks and setting unfortunate traps for people of the house that angered them. There were a variety of spirits that performed such "pranks", but kobolds were especially famous for leaving sharp objects around the house you would step on (forks, sharp rocks, etc).

Of course, there's no way to know if Tucker was channeling any of that when he thought up his oil slinging kobolds. I also have no way to know if their general reputation as mean little pranksters was more or less influential than Tucker's Kobolds specifically, but I can at least say it personally feels a little weird to give Tucker sole credit, even if the story is pretty awesome.

 

[jasper]

There's a 5e Adventurers League adventure that's loosely inspired by Tucker's Kobolds. It's a lot of fun. Might be a worth borrowing some ideas from.

https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/209228

Thank you i was going to mention 06-01. to give people a taste. add some small side tunnels a murder holes on the walls. kobold opens the murder hole, blowgun attack, and next round closes the thing.
To OP, and if you want scale the kobolds, just say the guard, noble, druid, knight, etc npc are kobolds.

 

[jasper]

How would you represent the difference between smart kobolds in large numbers and antagonistic DMing?

On the way to the dungeon, a lone fighter with 4 or 5 levels of exhaustion tells the tell. AKA forewarn them.
in game don't forget Terrance's Kobolds. These are the kobolds who clean up the loot drops (aka dead pcs) and sell the stuff to adventures. They then buy traps, oil, and other supplies to brother Tucker.

oofta pc. "say that wand of magic missiles looks familiar. The mage i was with had one just like it."
terrance, "this was just brought in two days ago. it is 50 gp. Deal."
Next week.
Oofta pc, "Say that wand of magic missiles looks familiar. my brother had one before he disappeared."
Terrance, "sorry for your lost. 75 GP and it yours. This just came in three days ago."

 

[Zardnaar]

From what I remember, they had significantly better armor than kobolds normally do, they used a lot of oil, and they used Kobold-sized access tunnels to get around and beat the PCs to wherever they were going. We can’t know for sure if the kobolds movements within these tunnels was fiat-based or carefully planned out, or if they had a set supply of oil or just as much as they needed to have to win. Their superior armor definitely sounds like a case of modifying the kobold stat block rather than playing the stats as-written extremely efficiently.

All that said, the story is told from the perspective of a player in Tucker’s game, and the player seems to be recalling the experience very fondly, rather than complaining about the adversarial GM cheating to make Kobolds overpowered. The story is also likely being at least somewhat embellished for entertainment purposes. So, I think the reality of how fair Tucker was playing is impossible to know, and the story kind of acts as an inkblot test. If you love the idea of making weak monsters a real threat with nothing but excellent tactical play, that’s what you’ll see Tucker doing. If you hate the idea of the GM giving unfair advantages to their pet NPCs so they can thwart the players no matter what they do, that’s what you’ll see Tucker doing.

It was in Dragon magazine. It doesn't give much detail its essentially a glorified sidebar.

Ivecsen s couple of printed adventures similar to it.

I did something similar in 2E with a spell xalked righteous faith of the faithful. Cast on mooks +3 to hit and damage, 1d8 hp, extra attack iirc.

Mostly fine gor a level or smallish dungeon. Not fun over several levels imho.