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D&D General Some thoughts on Moral Philosophies in D&D


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Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
"The question is where one character's soul should go to when this died"

Into the body of the replacement character! That's why they are entitled to get the dead characters magic items and treasure as soon as they show up.
DemoMonkey has now solved the question of whether there is a Soul -and- where it Goes upon death using D&D.

Philosophy is over. We're done, here. The final question is answered!
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
DemoMonkey has now solved the question of whether there is a Soul -and- where it Goes upon death using D&D.

Philosophy is over. We're done, here. The final question is answered!

....but what if you're playing 1e, and you've got an Elf??????

AD&D assumes that the anima, that force which gives life and distinct existence to thinking beings, is one of two sorts: soul or spirit. Humans, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-elves (those beings which can have a raise dead or resurrection spell cost upon them) all have souls; all other beings that worship deities have spirits. This latter group includes (but is not limited to) elves, orcs, half-orcs, and the other creatures specifically mentioned in the NON HUMANS' DEITIES section of this work.
(Deities & Demigods 10)

Oh, wait. So this is why 1e character sheets have a Last Will & Testament- in case you are a soulless, dead-eyed automaton.

A/K/A an elf!
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
....but what if you're playing 1e, and you've got an Elf??????

AD&D assumes that the anima, that force which gives life and distinct existence to thinking beings, is one of two sorts: soul or spirit. Humans, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-elves (those beings which can have a raise dead or resurrection spell cost upon them) all have souls; all other beings that worship deities have spirits. This latter group includes (but is not limited to) elves, orcs, half-orcs, and the other creatures specifically mentioned in the NON HUMANS' DEITIES section of this work.
(Deities & Demigods 10)

Oh, wait. So this is why 1e character sheets have a Last Will & Testament- in case you are a soulless, dead-eyed automaton.

A/K/A an elf!
Damn it...

Someone resurrect Russel and Wittgenstein so we can figure out the difference between Spirits and Souls.

... This is gonna take longer than I thought...
 


More on the original topic...

I think the default (not "allowable", just "default") moral philosophy of the game has actually changed between editions. Not just due to differing demographics of the players, but due to different assumptions/biases by the designers.

0E was more Consequentialist than anything
1E leaned more into Deontological
2E dialed that back a little and leaned more Utilitarian
3E veered hard back into Deontological
4E didn't really have a position in the matter, by design
5Es position seems to be "Whatever you want but NOT-Deontological"

Fortunately no one will argue angrily with any of these assessments.
Funny as the last line is, I don't really find myself disagreeing very much with this. 4E had this particularly interesting approach with an "unaligned" alignment, which was functionally similar to NN, but without the immense baggage NN had carried at various times over the years ("What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"). It certainly felt like it was the most hands-off, interpret it as you will take on alignment.

One thing I might say about 2E is that I think you're bang on for the PHB/DMG re: their take on alignment, but quite a few other books over the course of 2E, often Complete Handbooks or the like decided to do their own "takes" on alignment, in their sometimes desperate-seeming quest for content, and good grief were those all over the shop, from including some bizarrely hard-Deontological takes which were incompatible with each other and which seemed really out-of-place in 2E. The first setting for 2E, Taladas, I dunno if it ever actually spoke out about alignment, but reading between the lines it seemed to have an almost moral relativist take at times, I mean, not quite, but it was a hell of a lot less judge-y than almost anything in D&D for quite a while (it also had the first in-setting accepted-by-their-culture and explicitly existing trans characters, and a lot of non-white characters, only some of whom were "primitive" (sigh, well, at least they were trying), playable and non-evil ogres, minotaurs, goblins, lizardmen and so on - I was never quite sure what to make of the elf-human apartheid state though!)
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Nietzsche
God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Probably because Ward and Kuntz should've given God more hit points in Deities and Demigods.
In my home setting there is a religion based on the idea that there was one true god, but he’s dead. I know that isn’t what Niczsche meant, but I liked the idea of exploring a belief system that took it literally.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
I'm intentionally posting before reading the rest of the thread, so sorry if these are already covered. I'll catch up in a bit.

Objectivism
Though I'm loathe to label this a philosophy, that label is often misapplied by its adherents, and it seems to be the dominant philosophy in most D&D games in my experience. The characters tend to only care about themselves, don't care about anything in the world around them unless it can be somehow turned to their own personal benefit, and there's a strong current of that old time might makes right, social darwinism, and fascism. The justness of a cause is determined by who wins any given fight, strength is its own reward, and anyone not strong enough to maintain whatever it is they have doesn't deserve to keep it. To me, this is where murderhobos live. Even the troupes who try to do good are still mostly engaged in selfish adventuring, seeking rewards rather than doing what's right for its own sake. You can see this seep into the community at large with arguments about alignment, a push for moral relativism (as mentioned in the OP), and tropes like good is stupid, the lawful stupid paladin, and the cleric who charges for healing.

I think this quote is relevant: “Two novels can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other involves orcs.”

Stoicism
Though likely the philosophy itself is never name dropped or used, or even known about by most, it seems to be one of the dominant philosophies at gaming tables. This is seen in the adamant refusal to react in anything approaching a realistic way to anything that happens in the game, i.e. the player who refuses to roleplay their character. The player who treats their character as a game piece to be moved from one combat encounter to the next, who speaks of their character in the third person, and will only ever describe what the character does, and avoid ever speaking in character or otherwise engaging in the roleplay.

Taoism
Though it's really a Chinese religion vastly more complicated than most Westerners will ever realize, Taoism is treated as a kind of pop philosophy in the West. I think we see this most often with druids, monks, and other characters playing true neutral. With its flow state and balance of nature, it's a great fit for that let it go, don't grasp, go with the flow attitude. Admittedly, quite a few druids don't play that way, they go full ecowarrior (I've done it myself because it's fun). Taoism influenced Buddhism and so became Chan Buddhism, and when it migrated into Japan was called Zen Buddhism. I see a lot of monks going for a Zen philosophy.

Absurdism and Pessimism are two I'd like to see make an appearance. A Pessimistic cleric. "Hello, fellow-sufferer."
 

Rabulias

the Incomparably Shrewd and Clever
Someone resurrect Russel and Wittgenstein so we can figure out the difference between Spirits and Souls.

... This is gonna take longer than I thought...
Not at all. Spirits (and Souls) can be reincarnated, which actually works better for DemoMonkey's hypothesis. :)
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Not at all. Spirits (and Souls) can be reincarnated, which actually works better for DemoMonkey's hypothesis. :)

Have you looked at those tables? It's all fun and games until there's a TPK, and the five-member party comes back as a badger, a lynx, a troll, a raccoon, and a wolverine.*

*Not to be confused with Red Dawn. WOLVERINES!!!!!!
 

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