D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.

[ph0rk]

"I don't know how to do it" should not be a constantly repeated response anymore.

And most especially does not lead to "therefore it should not be done".

 

[ph0rk]

Where is the class that does something unique?

"You have not come up with something utterly brilliant in a forum post, therefore nothing brilliant can be created."

 

[Minigiant]

I’ve yet to see a suggestion for a full class that doesn’t either cleave too close to the battlemaster fighter or just provide additional damage/attacks on what a fighter could do which again is a solution looking for a problem. That includes the suggestions made by @Minigiant earlier in the thread.

That's because I was been tame to ease the traditionalists into the idea.

Yall aint ready from my ideas on the "ANIME WARRIOR" and "ACTION HERO" class.

 

[Xetheral]

Torches deal a single point of fire damage on a hit, I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to add modifiers as fire damage as well, that doesn't really make sense.

All attacks do added ability modifier damage on a hit (with the exception of attacks that don't deal damage). Crawford has even clarified that alchemical items like alchemist's fire add ability modifier fire damage (which ends up being delayed until future rounds due to the special rule for alchemist fire about delaying the damage).

Edit: fixed link

 

[Zubatcarteira]

That link doesn't say anything about alchemist fire.

 

[Xetheral]

That link doesn't say anything about alchemist fire.

Fixed. Something went wrong with using the Amp version, so I bypassed Amp.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Well, I guess it works, then.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I concur.

My biggest concern is that cool things that a character can do becomes codified as class abilities unnecessarily. Leading to the 3e issue of not being able to do cool things.

Exactly... think of all the cool things casters could do if they weren't limited by their spell lists.

 

[Mort]

I concur.

My biggest concern is that cool things that a character can do becomes codified as class abilities unnecessarily. Leading to the 3e issue of not being able to do cool things.

What we need (because people can’t do it themselves apparently) are rules for how to strike a weapon with an attack @ph0rk not a sub-class that can strike weapons. The first is inclusive the second is exclusive.

Int to Initiative and being able to wield weapons differently is all well and good. But is it not better suited to a feat or a subclass.

I’ve yet to see a suggestion for a full class that doesn’t either cleave too close to the battlemaster fighter or just provide additional damage/attacks on what a fighter could do which again is a solution looking for a problem. That includes the suggestions made by @Minigiant earlier in the thread.

Personally, I'm looking for more out of combat utility. Fighters do just fine in combat and frankly, expanding their role in it would just lead to the same complaints now being made about the Wizard (that they step on too many toes).

Outside of combat, though, Fighters are lacking in options. They have to rely on the skills everyone gets and a hopefully permissive DM.

I don't think some expansion to ou of combat utility will break or even affect that much.

How : well the easiest is to expand on the baby steps Tasha's has taken. Tasha's has maneuvers (for the battlemaster) that allow adding a superiority die to stealth or to persuasion or intimidation.

Expanding on this should be easy, just add maneuvers that allow addition to other skills.

Also add a non combat manuever die pool (something like 4 per short rest) and allow taking 2 or so "non combat" manuevers.

Seems like an easy place to start

 

[Shadowedeyes]

I actually dipped out of the conversation for a bit when the talk was all about combat numbers because Fighters can contribute in combat thanks to good damage and decent durability. The problem is that the class has basically no tools for anything that isn't a straight up brawl. They can't circumvent unusual circumstances well, they are bad saving throw wise against anything not str/con based, and have nothing to help in the social or exploration pillars. If the fighter was the undisputed master of the combat pillar maybe you could argue that it is warranted, but I don't think the fighter is soooo good at it that it makes up for the complete lack of ability in the others.