D&D 5E Spell focus needs an errated rule

[UngeheuerLich]

Regeneration requires a focus. Also, a bard can acquire spells from other lists that may work. I don't find an inherent problem with the ability, though I might have made it for all spells and said that if a spell requires a focus or material component, then you must have it. It's limited, but it works.

Sorry. But no.

 

[fearsomepirate]

That works until you consider the Warcaster feat, since that specifies that it only works with weapons and shields, not other objects such as wands.

So you need a set of gestures so intricate that you'd need special training to use them with a flail in your hand, but there's no way to learn to do them with a wand.

What they should have done from square one is systematize it:

V = no hands
VS = 1 hand free
VSM = 2 hands free

Then, as you write spells to think about if you want somebody to be able to cast it while wielding a weapon, or carrying a shield, or possibly both. It's really obvious they didn't think about any of this.

 

[jmartkdr2]

What they should have done from square one is systematize it:

V = no hands
VS = 1 hand free
VSM = 2 hands free

Then, as you write spells to think about if you want somebody to be able to cast it while wielding a weapon, or carrying a shield, or possibly both. It's really obvious they didn't think about any of this.

I'd go the other route: you need some kind of focus (so you can be disarmed and thrown in jail by non-idiot npcs), but what counts as a focus should be both class-dependent and forgiving.

 

[shadowoflameth]

What they should have done from square one is systematize it:

V = no hands
VS = 1 hand free
VSM = 2 hands free

Then, as you write spells to think about if you want somebody to be able to cast it while wielding a weapon, or carrying a shield, or possibly both. It's really obvious they didn't think about any of this.

Warcaster feat enables doing somatic components with a weapon or shield in one hand, or both hands. A focus replaces a material component and takes a hand to hold, so, yes, that would limit it further. If you have a focus in one hand and a shield or weapon in the other, your hands are full so no somatic components. That does limit what you can do unless your focus is on the shield like a cleric or paladin' holy symbol or if your weapon is your spell focus.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I think the rule in the PHB should have been something like:

“If a spell requires a hand free to supply a somatic component, a material component, or both, you may instead wield a spellcasting focus in that hand, unless the material component has a listed cost.

If a spell does not require a somatic or material component, but a special spellcasting focus would provide a benefit, you may choose to wield the focus and gain that benefit.”

That’s how most people are doing it anyway.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Warcaster feat enables doing somatic components with a weapon or shield in one hand, or both hands. A focus replaces a material component and takes a hand to hold, so, yes, that would limit it further. If you have a focus in one hand and a shield or weapon in the other, your hands are full so no somatic components. That does limit what you can do unless your focus is on the shield like a cleric or paladin' holy symbol or if your weapon is your spell focus.

...which is precisely what I am talking about. The fact that the "holy symbol" casting focus scrambles the hierarchy from

V -> V/S -> V/SM
to
V -> V/S/M -> V/S

is utterly moronic. Not only does it not make any sense whatsoever that it is easier to cast a more complex spell with my hands full, it also means that game designers have no consistent rubric to follow. The most restrictive spells, i.e., the ones you can't cast with your hands full, should be the most powerful. But which are those? The answer, "it depends on what type of casting focus your class uses," is a terrible answer, and when the 5e team realized that's what they had done, they should have realized, "wait, the rule that you can do somatic components if you're wielding a focus is really really stupid."

 

[fearsomepirate]

I think the rule in the PHB should have been something like:

“If a spell requires a hand free to supply a somatic component, a material component, or both, you may instead wield a spellcasting focus in that hand, unless the material component has a listed cost.

If a spell does not require a somatic or material component, but a special spellcasting focus would provide a benefit, you may choose to wield the focus and gain that benefit.”

That’s how most people are doing it anyway.

The rule in the PHB should be, "you cannot do somatic components without a free hand." No "unless that hand is wielding a focus." Spells that should be castable with your hands full simply should have the S component, why was this so hard for WotC?

Magic wands and the like:
"If you can use this doodad as a focus, you get a +1 bonus to the save DC of all spells you can cast as that class." Not "using this focus."

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The rule in the PHB should be, "you cannot do somatic components without a free hand." No "unless that hand is wielding a focus." Spells that should be castable with your hands full simply should have the S component, why was this so hard for WotC?

Magic wands and the like:
"If you can use this doodad as a focus, you get a +1 bonus to the save DC of all spells you can cast as that class." Not "using this focus."

I‘m not actually sure what the pattern is you’re proposing. It sounds like you are saying that you shouldn’t be able to use a focus in your spellcasting hand, so you would need two free hands if you wanted to use a focus.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I‘m not actually sure what the pattern is you’re proposing. It sounds like you are saying that you shouldn’t be able to use a focus in your spellcasting hand, so you would need two free hands if you wanted to use a focus.

Correct. V/S/M should be a more restrictive set of conditions than V/S. This would make logical sense, as it orders things by restrictiveness:

V - No hands
V/M - need a focus in one hand
V/S - need one hand free
V/S/M - need one hand free, one hand with focus

This should be the rubric used to balance spells/classes/features etc. Instead, it seems like they realized at the last minute they made it impossible for clerics to cast spells and smack people with most of the spells they wrote, so they hacked in a rule that basically changes it to:

V: No hands
V/S - need one hand free
V/M, V/S/M: Need one free hand unless your casting focus is your shield or weapon and then you can basically do V/S/M and V/M with no hands but not V/S because reasons.

which is stupid.