Firefly Reconsidered: Why Firefly Isn't "Hall of Fame" Great

[Maxperson]

Deleted - kept getting Server Error message when trying to post.

You were more stubborn than I was. I only created 4 duplicates, not 7!

 

[Janx]

I don't think there's anything wrong with laying down some breadcrumbs for a longer-scale plot, or even with just throwing them out there without having yet thought through how or if you'll make use of them.

But what absolutely does piss me off is when, as was the case with The X-Files and even moreso with Lost, the showrunners are very much asking the audience to play along and try to gather those clues in the hope of figuring out what's going on. Setting up a mystery is one thing, but trying to sell it as a mystery the audience can solve, when even the writers don't know the solution, is just deceptive marketing, and a very cynical way to try to keep viewers on the hook.

I was at a con with a bunch of Lost people on a panel and I think it was Michael Emmerson said he had a chat with one of the producers. That yielded this nugget: people loved or hated the ending because Lost had good characters and intriguing plot, but the ending focussed only on Character and neglected the other half of the audience who wanted plot resolution, not character resolution.

Both lost and BSG suffered from this "making it up as we go" when it came to plot. Implying there was a huge deal, clues, etc, but they didn't actually know. Few shows have really done the work that Babylon 5 did, of knowing the full arc and mysteries and making it all make sense. That's why they run out of steam and let us down. Really, the mistake Lindelhof and friends make is focussing mostly on character, when in reality you need both in equal measure. Babylon 5 had that, and few if any shows since learned how.

 

[dragoner]

A good first season, but it got bad fast.

I just binged Intergalactic on Peacock which was basically another Dark Matter, Kill Joys, insert SyFy channel b rate show here. Fun ideas that tend to go down the tubes because of bad writing and amateur actors.

I haven't heard of Intergalactic; another one that everyone wanted to go on longer was Stargate Universe, which I liked, except I see why it failed, as it was not the Stargate everyone was used too, much darker in tone, and a serial, not episodic.

 

[Umbran]

I think we could argue that about a lot of great works. How much of the artwork is the artist's skill, and how much was the right inspiration at the right time?

I'm not talking about inspiration. I'm talking about opportunity. As in "are you allowed to write an ending at all."

Babylon 5 almost didn't get the chance, and then the networks yank them around so the final season was decidedly lower-caliber. Person of Interest got cancelled, but luckily were given a half-season to manage to wrap things up. Timeless only got a 2-hour TV movie to resolve a major plot point. Firefly just got cut off mid-season, not even airing all the episodes made. ST: Enterprise got cut off just as a guy who actually knew what to do with the show got the reins.

The list goes on for shows that were not allowed to attempt to find a satisfying end.

 

[Zardnaar]

I haven't heard of Intergalactic; another one that everyone wanted to go on longer was Stargate Universe, which I liked, except I see why it failed, as it was not the Stargate everyone was used too, much darker in tone, and a serial, not episodic.

Didn't really like the characters in SGU.

And they killed off Atlantis to make it. SG1 and Atlanta had likeable characters.

Plot was crap as well.

 

[dragoner]

Didn't really like the characters in SGU.

And they killed off Atlantis to make it. SG1 and Atlanta had likeable characters.

Plot was crap as well.

Say that in some parts of the SG/SF community and you will start a holy war, I know to this day some people don't like me for criticizing it. SG1 was done, even before bringing in Morena Baccarin, and Atlantis was done when Jewel Staite came on. I like both of those as well. Surprisingly enough Atlantis had some of the best space battles of any sci-fi of its time. Talking about all these shows, it is funny how many of the actors reappear through shows like Firefly, Stargate, and Dark Matter.

 

[Zardnaar]

Say that in some parts of the SG/SF community and you will start a holy war, I know to this day some people don't like me for criticizing it. SG1 was done, even before bringing in Morena Baccarin, and Atlantis was done when Jewel Staite came on. I like both of those as well. Surprisingly enough Atlantis had some of the best space battles of any sci-fi of its etc. Think they were all filmed in Canada.time. Talking about all these shows, it is funny how many of the actors reappear through shows like Firefly, Stargate, and Dark Matter.

Say that in some parts of the SG/SF community and you will start a holy war, I know to this day some people don't like me for criticizing it. SG1 was done, even before bringing in Morena Baccarin, and Atlantis was done when Jewel Staite came on. I like both of those as well. Surprisingly enough Atlantis had some of the best space battles of any sci-fi of its time. Talking about all these shows, it is funny how many of the actors reappear through shows like Firefly, Stargate, and Dark Matter.

And Continuum, Warehouse 13, Dark Matter, Sanctuary etc. Think they were all filmed in Canada.

SG1 was really done around season 7, Atlantis was fairly consistent but last season was the weakest IMHO.

SGU Stargate without a Stargate team and barely any aliens or Stargate (gave up early season 2).

 

[dragoner]

And Continuum, Warehouse 13, Dark Matter, Sanctuary etc. Think they were all filmed in Canada.

SG1 was really done around season 7, Atlantis was fairly consistent but last season was the weakest IMHO.

SGU Stargate without a Stargate team and barely any aliens or Stargate (gave up early season 2).

Yes, I think it is Sky in Canada, and Syfy is NBC and Warner Brothers? Who incidentally did Person of Interest. TV is way convoluted, I mean, you can also see all of those people appear in the Hallmark channel made for TV movies, cheesy romance.

A lot of these shows did have a decent lifecycle, SG1 in particular. Atlantis losing two of the most developed characters, where Staite, nothing against her, but she wasn't going to fill the gaping wound their loss created. Then again neither of those shows with a more old style individual episode format would survive today, people would hate them. SGU, it was what it was, I didn't like the drone war thing, and Carlyle is a good actor except his character as soon as you began to get some sympathy for him he did something that made me not like him. So yeah, totally modern interpretation of Stargate, cool in a way, jarring compared to the old, and the legacy issues of the series. The million year old ship that was covered in greebles was over the top also.

 

[Stalker0]

I haven't heard of Intergalactic; another one that everyone wanted to go on longer was Stargate Universe, which I liked, except I see why it failed, as it was not the Stargate everyone was used too, much darker in tone, and a serial, not episodic.

I think the main problem was the lack of a good villain. Realistically, when you are literally jumping around galaxies, the idea that any single entity could be a challenge....would probably have to be so insanely advanced that it would be hard to stop. Further, there is no world building.... every place you visit...you will never ever see again, so there is no sense that what your doing could have positive or negative ramifications later.

The tried using the "left over war machines" angle for a while, but again soulless machines don't provide a very interesting challenge.

Probably what they should have done was just double down on the internal drama. They started to do that but it was a bit split and still felt hollow. Yes that is a very different SG than we are used to seeing...but I think that is the premise you have to work with.

 

[Stalker0]

The list goes on for shows that were not allowed to attempt to find a satisfying end.

Which takes us right back to the OPs premise.... that shows that aren't finished shouldn't make the hall of fame. And personally I have to agree with that....because as there is a large lists of shows that did end very badly (even when given the proper chance to do so).... it seems doing a good ending is pretty difficult.

It does suck that many shows aren't given the chance to finish, but judging an entire body of work on possibility is prone to folly.... because now the show can always be as great as "what could have been". That's too nebulous to give a work an equal level of status to amazing shows that did finish and did provide us the whole package.