D&D 5E Volo's 5e vs Tasha's 5e where do you see 5e heading?

[Oofta]

-oops--

 

[Minigiant]

Why not start a thread putting together your own weapons table, while getting multiple perspectives from the communities feedback

I keep changing my mind and adding more weapons. It's addicting.

There's a Pizza-slicer polearm on the list now.

 

[Yaarel]

I keep changing my mind and adding more weapons. It's addicting.

There's a Pizza-slicer polearm on the list now.

Put it all together in the first post, and continue to reedit the content later based on comments and your reconsiderations.

 

[tetrasodium]

Most characters never get that high in Level, either. You can dislike the data, but it is what it is. The point is, Feats are an optional module used by a minority of players, that WotC gives some level of support for. So that is something they are willing to do, for a variant that a third of players are interested in using.

The point that you are missing is that almost any usefully specific group of d&d players is going to he a minority until you get into excessively broad groupings. Even tier 1 games/players based on ssh characters is going to split into minorities of players who bring a different character to AL each week, players theory crafting. Players making things for one shots, players who make a character for a game they hope to join but may or may join, characters who get killed, npcs a hm creates for whatever reason, and many others rather than the monolith you are trying to make it out as in order to defend wotc's dropped ball.

 

[Parmandur]

The point that you are missing is that almost any usefully specific group of d&d players is going to he a minority until you get into excessively broad groupings. Even tier 1 games/players based on ssh characters is going to split into minorities of players who bring a different character to AL each week, players theory crafting. Players making things for one shots, players who make a character for a game they hope to join but may or may join, characters who get killed, npcs a hm creates for whatever reason, and many others rather than the monolith you are trying to make it out as in order to defend wotc's dropped ball.

I don see any balls dropped so far. The point is, when there is a significant minority audience, WotC will serve them. Of WotC isn't serving a niche, it's because it isn't a significant enough proportion of their audience, compared to a known minority niche like such as Feats (and recall, the third of players who use Feats is literally millions of people: the DMsGuild tactical book referenced earlier sold between two to five hundred, as opposed to over 15 million Feat users.

 

[Parmandur]

So, guys, there have been 2 books since the PHB in 2014 that have had any Feats: Xanathar's Guide had 3 pages of Feats in 2017, and Tasha's Vauldron had 3 pages in 2020. 6 pages of content, in 6 years of publication, for a feature used by a minority of players ~15-16 million strong. Of 25 million customers warrant less than. Apafe a year, features with an audience of hundreds do not warrant while pages.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don see any balls dropped so far. The point is, when there is a significant minority audience, WotC will serve them. Of WotC isn't serving a niche, it's because it isn't a significant enough proportion of their audience, compared to a known minority niche like such as Feats (and recall, the third of players who use Feats is literally millions of people: the DMsGuild tactical book referenced earlier sold between two to five hundred, as opposed to over 15 million Feat users.

The 70% or get dropped standard has been on direct contradiction with that.

 

[Parmandur]

The 70% or get dropped standard has been on direct contradiction with that.

They have to draw the line somewhere. Why publish something that 40 million players will never lose and don't want?

 

[Horwath]

@Minigiant
Yes, the weapons table in 5E is probably the weakest link in 5E.

1st; there is so much inconsistency in simple/martial split between weapons that it's almost funny, and some weapons are just a waste of ink on the paper;

quarterstaff vs. greatclub; who would ever use a greatclub over quarterstaff? You just need that extra 6lb to carry around for same damage and not be able to use it onehanded if needed?

Light crossbow is simple and heavy crossbow is martial weapon? they are the same weapon with different pull strength

same goes for shortbow and longbow.

handaxe is simple and battleaxe is martial weapon? Handaxe can be thrown ffs. That is an extra usage of weapon that needs to be learned differently than melee combat, yet that is simpler to learn?


2nd; Weapon damage and special properties should be more unified and there should be not martial/simple category. No need.
Having fighting styles, extra attack(s), access to martial maneuvers and investment in STR/DEX is more than enough to to differentiate a martial character from non-martial.

Weapons:
base damage 1d10, one handed

properties for melee weapons:

Light(L); can be dual wield with no special training, reduce damage dice by one step
Finesse(F); can use DEX instead of STR for attack and damage bonuses, reduce damage dice by one step
Reach(R), 10ft; can attack targets 10ft away, reduce damage dice by one step
Thrown(T), 40/120ft; reduce damage dice by one step
Versatile(V); if one handed weapon lacks light, finesse or thrown property, increase damage die by one step when using it with two hands
Two handed(2H); weapon requires two hands to use increase damage dice by two steps
Heavy(H); increase damage die by one step

some rules to prevent having 100 combinations of weapons and properties;

Heavy weapons must be two handed,
Light weapons cannot be two handed,
Reach weapons cannot be light,
Reach weapons cannot be thrown,
Reach weapons cannot be two handed,
Heavy weapons cannot be finesse,

so some iconic examples:

dagger; 1d4; F, L, T
shortsword/scimitar; 1d6; F, L
Javelin; 1d6; L, T
chakram; 1d6; F, T
whip; 1d6; F, R
throwing axe/hammer; 1d8; T
rapier; 1d8; F
handaxe/sidesword/mace; 1d8; L
spear; 1d8(V 1d10); R
longsword/battleaxe/warhammer; 1d10(V 1d12)

spiked chain; 1d10; 2H, F, R
longspear; 1d12; 2H, R
Elven courtblade; 1d12, 2H, F
pike/halberd/glaive; 2d6; 2H, H, R
greatclub; 2d6; 2H
greatsword/greataxe/maul; 2d8; 2H, H


ranged weapons;

Shortbow; 1d6, 2H, 80/320ft
Longbow; 1d8, 2H, H 150/600ft

light crossbow; 2d6, 2H, Loading(Action), 80/320ft
heavy crossbow; 2d8, 2H, H, Loading(Action), 100/400ft
hand crossbow; 1d6, L, Loading(Bonus action), 40/120ft

*Crossbow expert feat: reduces loading time from Action to Bonus action and Bonus action to "free".


Extra (optional) options:
all weapons deal one type of damage; B/P/S. If they deal 2(or 3) types at the same time, maybe reduce damage die for one step for extra versatility:
15ft reach weapons; disadvantage on targets within 10ft, cannot attack within 5ft. Same damage as 10ft reach weapons.


For class balance; we could give "martial weapon classes" extra skill at 1st level, and those with only few martial weapons a tool or two extra.

Also, a good thing from 4E. Remove medium armor. add hide as 13+dex AC to light armors. Have it cost a little extra, about 200-300GP so it's not 1st level gear. Shields come with light armor.
classes starting armor proficiency:
No armor: Monk, Sorcerer, Wizard,
Light armor: Artificer, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock,
Heavy armor: Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Warlord,

*classes can exchange one category of armor for extra class skill at 1st level(or whenever they gain extra category or armor via sub-class).

Light amor: normal stealth, Heavy armor: disadvantage on stealth.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I'm a little bit surprised that with the discussion on feats no one has mentioned how you have to choose between taking a feat or an ASI in 5E. That does a lot to discourage using them.

I would like to take a feat most of the time to increase my options, but increasing my AC or to-hit modifier is going to come up way more often in play. Some feats also let you increase an ability score, but they're rarely the ones I find particularly flavorful.

As a DM, I just go ahead and let everyone have a feat at first level and let variant humans have two, plus characters who gain a fighting style get Martial Adept for free.