D&D 5E Volo's 5e vs Tasha's 5e where do you see 5e heading?

Horwath

Legend
I'm a little bit surprised that with the discussion on feats no one has mentioned how you have to choose between taking a feat or an ASI in 5E. That does a lot to discourage using them.

I would like to take a feat most of the time to increase my options, but increasing my AC or to-hit modifier is going to come up way more often in play. Some feats also let you increase an ability score, but they're rarely the ones I find particularly flavorful.

As a DM, I just go ahead and let everyone have a feat at first level and let variant humans have two, plus characters who gain a fighting style get Martial Adept for free.
In every campaign that I played to 8th level or more, every single character had one feat at least.

But, I agree. Having ASIs and feats in the same resource pool in not the best decision. It's not bad, but it would be better if you have separate levels when you get ASI and when you get a feat.

also, we found out that bonus feat at 1st level for all is a good addition to the game(no variant humans then).
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
They have to draw the line somewhere. Why publish something that 40 million players will never lose and don't want?
Problem being that the 30% is not going to be a monolith as you start looking at different areas being ignored or worse outright combated against. Pretty soon you get well over a mere plurality with an axe to bury over a few areas wotc had decided are unacceptable components of gameplay.stsrt roping in areas that concern GM's and pretty quickly you get a bunch of 30% groups that can punch above their weight looking for some other option to drag 4-6 other players along into away from o5e
 

Hussar

Legend
Pretty quickly? Like, it's been 6 years now that that hasn't happened. For the first time in gaming history. Even 1e, by this time, had crashed.

What are you basing these claims on? What evidence do you have that there is a looming crash? Or is it all just chicken entrails?
 

But, I agree. Having ASIs and feats in the same resource pool in not the best decision. It's not bad, but it would be better if you have separate levels when you get ASI and when you get a feat.
I know in my multiple playthroughs of Baldur's Gate 3's early access I've repeatedly had to make choices like "do I want to give Astarion (the rogue) the Mobile feat to make it easier for him to get to targets, hit, and escape, or do I want to increase his Dexterity to improve both his attack rolls and AC?" I find myself wanting the former but eventually giving into the more boring but more optimal latter choice.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Pretty quickly? Like, it's been 6 years now that that hasn't happened. For the first time in gaming history. Even 1e, by this time, had crashed.

What are you basing these claims on? What evidence do you have that there is a looming crash? Or is it all just chicken entrails?
even if frustrated ignored gm's only make up 5-10% sized chunks. Take 2-3 frustrated ignored groups of them each with 4-6 payers & you get 20-60% sized groups when they move their players. I've mentioned a few 5e forks coming out recently & in the near future. I'm even in the process of moving 4 players to one released to backers about a week ago that's going to print in july with 6 pages on weapon properties & creating weapons in it... Given the last 6 pages were largely about wotc's unwillingness to provide even a single page of that kind of stuff it seemed like a good choice of the many improvements in it. There is another one starting around october that seems to be targeting more/different areas wotc has decided are unacceptable elements of gameplay
 

I apologize, you might be reading too much into a word choice of mine. Most players and most tables don't use that optional module. WotC didn't state this in an "article," but Crawford has stated it in talks and Twitter a number of times, and the aforementioned D&D Beyond data backs him up pretty solidly. Many players use Feats, but most do not.
That's fine. I get the distinction that as an optional module, you can object to the word banned as a little too strong if the DM simply chooses not to allow it.
But my experience is that most DMs do allow it, even though in many games players may not choose to take a feat.
A couple of pages back someone specifically stated that WotC said most players do not play in games where feats were allowed.

That is entirely different, and separate from the "most players do not take feats" statement that they have made, and that I was aware of.

So, guys, there have been 2 books since the PHB in 2014 that have had any Feats: Xanathar's Guide had 3 pages of Feats in 2017, and Tasha's Vauldron had 3 pages in 2020. 6 pages of content, in 6 years of publication, for a feature used by a minority of players ~15-16 million strong. Of 25 million customers warrant less than. Apafe a year, features with an audience of hundreds do not warrant while pages.
I can't speak for most publications and whether they contained feats. But I'm sure Eberron did.

Currently the 5e weapon list is not great. It is full of duplicates and virtual duplicates. And only some of the weapons are supposed in magic items or the official options (feats).

There is practically no reason to buy a Warhammer or flail.
. . . Maybe you would like your character to use a warhammer? Or a Flail?
This was a deliberate choice: If you want your character to use a warhammer, you are free to make that choice.
If the Warhammer, Battle-axe, Longsword had different properties, then there would be a "best choice" for a given character, and so the player would feel required to pick that one, even if they wanted their character to use one of the others.

There have been a number of attempted redesigns of the weapon table suggested on ENworld. Some of these just involved giving weapons Finesse and an Asian name. Others went into more depth though, and if you do a search, you may be able to mine them for inspiration.

And who thought up the trident.
Pretty sure that that was included like the greatclub and Hide armour: its an iconic weapon used by a number of adversaries, but wasn't necessarily there to be a prime choice for a player character.

Now the weapon table certainly has things that I object to: I've houseruled Quarterstaves as two-handed weapons, and Bows as Finesse almost since I began DMing 5e. But overall I like the fact that practically all weapons are represented there, particularly if you're OK with just changing the weapon type.

Well you can't grab another weapon with a sword.
Uh, you can control its position, lock it with the guard, or even bind it.
So . . . yes you can, if that is what you mean by grab.
This is like the "flails bypass shields" myth, and one of the reasons that 5e generally grants the capability for special attacks as a function of the user, not the weapon.

Now, I'd definitely like to see more capabilities like shoving, grappling, and disarming granted as martial options. I'm just not sure that they should be locked behind weapon types.

But you could do it with special attacks just like the ones in the DMG. And give bonuses and penalties based on the weapon or weapon. A zero damage didn't to add bonus damage to the next attack. A bonus action attack attack after hitting with a combo started. A slashing attack to break a wooden shield. A trip then overhead smash with a bonus for having welding an axe or hammer. Repelling with a spear or pike to attack while defending. A shieldwall. A spearwall.

I will await with interest.
 

Oofta

Legend
Pretty quickly? Like, it's been 6 years now that that hasn't happened. For the first time in gaming history. Even 1e, by this time, had crashed.

What are you basing these claims on? What evidence do you have that there is a looming crash? Or is it all just chicken entrails?
People have been predicting a drop in sales for the past 5 years. Eventually they'll be correct.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
That's fine. I get the distinction that as an optional module, you can object to the word banned as a little too strong if the DM simply chooses not to allow it.
But my experience is that most DMs do allow it, even though in many games players may not choose to take a feat.
A couple of pages back someone specifically stated that WotC said most players do not play in games where feats were allowed.

That is entirely different, and separate from the "most players do not take feats" statement that they have made, and that I was aware of.

I can't speak for most publications and whether they contained feats. But I'm sure Eberron did.

. . . Maybe you would like your character to use a warhammer? Or a Flail?
This was a deliberate choice: If you want your character to use a warhammer, you are free to make that choice.
If the Warhammer, Battle-axe, Longsword had different properties, then there would be a "best choice" for a given character, and so the player would feel required to pick that one, even if they wanted their character to use one of the others.

There have been a number of attempted redesigns of the weapon table suggested on ENworld. Some of these just involved giving weapons Finesse and an Asian name. Others went into more depth though, and if you do a search, you may be able to mine them for inspiration.

Pretty sure that that was included like the greatclub and Hide armour: its an iconic weapon used by a number of adversaries, but wasn't necessarily there to be a prime choice for a player character.

Now the weapon table certainly has things that I object to: I've houseruled Quarterstaves as two-handed weapons, and Bows as Finesse almost since I began DMing 5e. But overall I like the fact that practically all weapons are represented there, particularly if you're OK with just changing the weapon type.

Uh, you can control its position, lock it with the guard, or even bind it.
So . . . yes you can, if that is what you mean by grab.
This is like the "flails bypass shields" myth, and one of the reasons that 5e generally grants the capability for special attacks as a function of the user, not the weapon.

Now, I'd definitely like to see more capabilities like shoving, grappling, and disarming granted as martial options. I'm just not sure that they should be locked behind weapon types.



I will await with interest.
There an even more significant push of "best choice" weapond in 5e though.. is it finesse or eavy as needed then pick the biggest damage die. A weapon with a larger damage die does more average damage than one with a smaller damage die. The big difference with the best choice now and then though is that there used to he subjective elements to it before while in 5e the choice is an almost entirely objective one
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Problem being that the 30% is not going to be a monolith as you start looking at different areas being ignored or worse outright combated against. Pretty soon you get well over a mere plurality with an axe to bury over a few areas wotc had decided are unacceptable components of gameplay.stsrt roping in areas that concern GM's and pretty quickly you get a bunch of 30% groups that can punch above their weight looking for some other option to drag 4-6 other players along into away from o5e
Don't see much evidence of this being a thing at all.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I can't speak for most publications and whether they contained feats. But I'm sure Eberron did.
Ah, yes, Ebwrron had two or three Dragonmark Feats. But other than that, I believe there is nothing. So, slightly over a page a year, for six years postlaunch, for an audience of 15-16 million players.
 

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