D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Crimson Longinus]

those things are lighter than you would think, it is more a question of rebalancing the weapon which is not something I know much on but it can be done.

It's not just the weight that is the issue, it's the leverage. A human couldn't reasonably use a twelve feet sword regardless how light it was.

Different species having differnt rules that reflect their unique qualities is a good thing. It's not an issue.

 

[billd91]

The misinformation campaign directed at 4e was effective on a level that rivals any political version thereof and persists as solidly as the idea of Catherine the Great's equestrian enthusiasm.

For those of us who started playing 4e when first released, played for several months, and gave it up because we didn’t care for it… it might as well have dropped the gnome and half-orc. None of us picked up anything past the initial core 3.
That‘s part of what your “misinformation” campaign entails, early exiters who don’t really care that some of the stuff came out later.

 

[steeldragons]

I guess I just don't get it.

I don't know when things like Innocence, Authenticity, Tranquility, friendship, just plain being comfortable and in harmony with one's self and surroundings became such UNheroic concepts. But clearly, they simply are not anymore for large sections (or generations, at this point) of fantasy players. Clearly if one isn't a moody broody dark misunderstood antihero, or some manganime uber-powered and proportioned mega-man, there's just no point to going on adventures or playing a fantasy RPG.

If you give a halfling bat wings and laser eye-beams, well then they would have a [suitable for acceptance] "niche?" THEN they make sense with the firbolg and tiefling and half-goblin-winged-centaur?

Kobold aren't any more interesting than halflings just by virtue of being small scaly rat-tailed dogmen. Even less so as small mini-draco-reptileans. Gnomes aren't any "better" as a PC option because they have some fey fluff written into their lore for the last few editions.

The game gives you what you need to make, well, any creature suitable/interesting for your games. You just need to use what's there.

In my particular setting/world, I just group up some other critters so Halflings have the same diversity and options as the other "big four" species for PCs. Dwarves have a few "sub-races" that are both cultural and magical differences. Elves, of course, have the whole High-Wood-Drow thing going since the dawn of D&D/fantasy TTRPG time.

SO there are the "normal" pastoral tolkienesque halfling folk. Small. Stealthy. Festive, foodie, fun whimsical guys who love a well-crafted coat and a warm bed.

There are, right there in the 1st Monster Manual, Brownies. The "earthy" fey offshoot Halflings who went to the Land of Faerie eons ago and now can (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not) move back and forth to the material plane setting. Helping out do-gooders...or not just making mischief...with their limited magical powers.

Then, there are the evil underground assassiny shadow-magicky halflings that humans simply call "Dark Creepers" [they have an in-game in-world name as a species other than that, of course]. These were "normal halflings" once. Lured by greed and envy of the wealth and power of other species to the depths of the subterranean world, and enslaved to an evil overlord [a "wizard" or some other power depending on the rumor/legend being told of their origins]. Corrupted and tainted by the callous, dark emanations that pervade all the Underworld. Now they know nothing but darkness and move with/through it with startling ease.

Hill Dwarf - Mountain Dawrf - Grey Dwarf/Duerger, though I use Derro as the evil underdark dwarves in my setting (and Shield Dwarf and Gold Dwarf and Iron Dwarf, and, and, and...)
High Elf- Wood Elf - Dark Elf/Drow (and Sea Elf and Winged Elf and Moon Elf and Copper Elf and and and...)
Pastoral Halfling - Fae Halfling - Shadow/Dark Halfling. (and I basically stop there.)

Does this make them "interesting" or legit as a PC species? Or give them any more "niche" than ten "kinds" (cultures, genetic offshoots, what have you) of elves and six kinds of dwarves? Probably not.

It's good/fun world setting lore, though. Serves for making fun NPCs and good plot hooks. But the hairfooted jovial venturer -accidental or otherwise- is just as much fun to play, and just as niche in the game world, whether you have fae-magic Brownies and Shadow-Underdark-halflings roaming your world or not, as any dragon-man or half-demon.

 

[Minigiant]

Nah. There are plenty of other weapons to choose from, it's fine. Granted, polearm master being OP might have negative effect on halfling popularity.

The issue is that it further limits Halflings and without a benefit counteracting it, it makes Halfling more redundant with humans.

I feel like giving them luck power is a copout they need some with more meat to it, plus it is all mechanic they need a thematic overhaul

It's only a copout if it doesn't affect Halfling culture.

The luck point power comes with them becoming calculated risktakers.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I don't know when things like Innocence, Authenticity, Tranquility, friendship, just plain being comfortable and in harmony with one's self and surroundings became such UNheroic concepts. But clearly, they simply are not anymore for large sections (or generations, at this point) of fantasy players. Clearly is one isn't a moody broody dark misunderstood antihero, or some manganime uber-powered and proportioned mega-man, there's just no point to going on adventures or playing a fantasy RPG.

As far as I understand the OP, the issues they have are that in WotC published material, halflings are thematically redundant with humans and don't have enough traits to differentiate themselves from humans and mitigate said redundancy. Innocence and authenticity are traits that can be embodied by fictional human cultures just as well as halfling ones. And if the default stereotype for halflings was "dark, misunderstood antihero", they would still have this thematic redundancy with humans. I guess if you played into it to the point of parody you could make them like the Crimson Demons from Konosuba and differentiate them that way, but WotC would never do that for their official settings. So we're stuck with the British, pastoral, and way too human homebodies as a first impression for halflings, and for many players that's not enough of a hook to look deeper and understand them more deeply (WotC's lack of updated, detailed lore for the current edition isn't exactly helping things either).

This is something of a digression, but speaking as a weeb, I can't recall seeing any notable halflings in D&D-derived JRPGs, or fantasy manga and anime inspired by those JRPGs. Plenty of elves, orcs, and goblins though, and handful of dwarves too. I wonder what that says, if anything.

 

[Aldarc]

This is something of a digression, but speaking as a weeb, I can't recall seeing any notable halflings in D&D-derived JRPGs, or fantasy manga and anime inspired by those JRPGs. Plenty of elves, orcs, and goblins though, and handful of dwarves too. I wonder what that says, if anything.

Off the top of my head...

Maar (Record of Lodoss War: Chronicles of the Heroic Knight) is a "Grass Runner," which are halfling stand-ins.

Final Fantasy XVI has the "Lalafell," which are basically halflings.

 

[Faolyn]

It's a bit personal to interrogate players like that, and I doubt they have a clear idea themselves.

Does "hey, so how come you like/hate halflings? Any particular reason?" count as interrogation?

 

[Faolyn]

Found the problem!

Removing the entire category of reach weapons from the halfling greatly reduces their playability as martials, therefore reducing how often they're played.

It's like if the DM was instructed to punch the player directly in the face whenever their dwarf casts a spell.

Er, no. And what, first you complain that halflings can only use tiny versions of regular weapons, and now you complain that they can use nearly all weapons?

First, going by racial ASIs--which thank goodness, they seem to be doing away with in future products in favor of a floating +2/+1--halflings get a bonus to Dex, which means they would probably want to play using Dex-based weapons anyway, especially in combination with their Halfling Nimbleness. Halflings have always had that Dex bonus. And in this edition, they don't have a Strength penalty.

Secondly, most classes have enough of a variety to them that even as a pure fighter, you don't have to rely on Heavy weapons to be effective. There's several fighting styles that work well with Dex-based fighters and give them bonuses.

 

[Mind of tempest]

For this of us who started playing 4e when first released, played for several months, and gave it up because we didn’t care for it… it might as well have dropped the gnome and half-orc. None of us picked up anything past the initial core 3.
That‘s part of what your “misinformation” campaign entails, early exiters who don’t really care that some of the stuff came out later.

and I severely doubt it was the lack of half-orcs or gnomes that really made you dislike it so this is a pointless statement.

I guess I just don't get it.

I don't know when things like Innocence, Authenticity, Tranquility, friendship, just plain being comfortable and in harmony with one's self and surroundings became such UNheroic concepts. But clearly, they simply are not anymore for large sections (or generations, at this point) of fantasy players. Clearly is one isn't a moody broody dark misunderstood antihero, or some manganime uber-powered and proportioned mega-man, there's just no point to going on adventures or playing a fantasy RPG.

If you give a halfling bat wings and laser eye-beams, well then they would have a [suitable for acceptance] "niche?" THEN they make sense with the firbolg and tiefling and half-goblin-winged-centaur?

Kobold aren't any more interesting than halflings just by virtue of being small scaly rat-tailed dogmen. Even less so as small mini-draco-reptileans. Gnomes aren't any "better" as a PC option because they have some fey fluff written into their lore for the last few editions.

The game gives you what you need to make, well, any creature suitable/interesting for your games. You just need to use what's there.

In my particular setting/world, I just group up some other critters so Halflings have the same diversity and options as the other "big four" species for PCs. Dwarves have a few "sub-races" that are both cultural and magical differences. Elves, of course, have the whole High-Wood-Drow thing going since the dawn of D&D/fantasy TTRPG time.

SO there are the "normal" pastoral tolkienesque halfling folk. Small. Stealthy. Festive, foodie, fun whimsical guys who love a well-crafted coat and a warm bed.

There are, right there in the 1st Monster Manual, Brownies. The "earthy" fey offshoot Halflings who went to the Land of Faerie eons ago and now can (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not) move back and forth to the material plane setting. Helping out do-gooders...or not just making mischief...with their limited magical powers.

Then, there are the evil underground assassiny shadow-magicky halflings that humans simply call "Dark Creepers" [they have an in-game in-world name as a species other than that, of course]. These were "normal halflings" once. Lured by greed and envy of the wealth and power of other species to the depths of the subterranean world, and enslaved to an evil overlord [a "wizard" or some other power depending on the rumor/legend being told of their origins]. Corrupted and tainted by the callous, dark emanations that pervade all the Underworld. Now they know nothing but darkness and move with/through it with startling ease.

Hill Dwarf - Mountain Dawrf - Grey Dwarf/Duerger, though I use Derro as the evil underdark dwarves in my setting (and Shield Dwarf and Gold Dwarf and Iron Dwarf, and, and, and...)
High Elf- Wood Elf - Dark Elf/Drow (and Sea Elf and Winged Elf and Moon Elf and Copper Elf and and and...)
Pastoral Halfling - Fae Halfling - Shadow/Dark Halfling. (and I basically stop there.)

Does this make them "interesting" or legit as a PC species? Or give them any more "niche" than ten "kinds" (cultures, genetic offshoots, what have you) of elves and six kinds of dwarves? Probably not.

It's good/fun world setting lore, tough. Serves for making fun NPCs and good plot hooks. But the hairfooted jovial venturer -accidental or otherwise- is just as much fun to play, and just as niche in the game world, whether you have fae-magic Brownies and Shadow-Underdark-halflings roaming your world or not, as any dragon-man or half-demon.

Innocence, Authenticity, Tranquility, friendship, just plain being comfortable and in harmony with one's self and surroundings are not things you fight for, nor are they particularly heroic they are the things people who only care about the immediate care about which tend to end up producing a population of "f you, I got mine" not necessarily a population of good people.

I never said I want nothing but moody anti-heroes but you cannot build the identity of a creature around what amounts to being just "nice" as it is well observed there are plenty of nice people who are utterly detestable.

halflings have no story things happen to them as what they love and care about dies around them they are sloth made manifest, the small reptile who has had its world defined by tragedy and the acts of thing vastly more powerful than it at least has more story the one-note hobbit rip-offs and a justification for valuing those things so highly.

your settings subraces bearly changes it as it nearly adds minor magic where is the story or history, do you assume I do not level that standard at most subraces? because I want ones which are better than what we get but that is for later.

why would one race not be able to able to do anything interesting lorewise? they do not add much to a setting only betray what the maker read/liked or what they think is moral.
plus their audience identification premises does not work as most people who see themselves as humans

The issue is that it further limits Halflings and without a benefit counteracting it, it makes Halfling more redundant with humans.



It's only a copout if it doesn't affect Halfling culture.

The luck point power comes with them becoming calculated risktakers.

what else do they do what other subraces ones who are more divergent, also can someone get them a cooler look than just small human.

Does "hey, so how come you like/hate halflings? Any particular reason?" count as interrogation?

to some apparently yes.

 

[Faolyn]

wait what is this about Catherine the great?

Ooh! I took Russian History in high school! I have vague memories of stuff I learned there!

Spoiler: for NSFWness?

She did not, in fact, get crushed to death by a horse that was being lowered onto her for sexual reasons.