D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Mind of tempest]

Why do you think that matters?

It is a good thing that there is a core race that has not had a big impact on history. They. Are. Just. Folks.

and you know which race has the endless number of nameless faces is literally all of them as all player race are social group sapients as opposed creature who are hyper solitary or hive or even one mind may bodies creatures so that is about as relevant a niche as wallpaper is to an ant, no race has a society of all kings or all sanitation workers.

I have to chuckle. There is now this bizarre concept that a race that supposedly never goes to war, and is the only one, is worthless. Not even worthless, but completely unworthy. The idea is that this supposed people is so pathetic that they don't deserve to exist -- again, the affront is that they are the only race that believes in peace, tranquility, joy, happiness.

Holding this position is unfathomable, because believing both of these thoughts means that you feel that stories of peace and happiness cannot and must not exist. Holding this position is hypocritical, as you claim there is no story -- and yet you constantly repeat the story.

Heroes come from all walks of life. And if your table only has room for those who are constantly full of tragedy and violence I'm glad I don't play at it.

it is not that they do not go to war it is that nothing other than food, family or smokes matter to them did they use their lack of war to achieve great feats in knowledge, arts or anything people care about that lives for more than a year turns out no which is the problem they logically would never care about saving the world as I am fairly certain they do not even think it exists.
also of course you can't have a story of nothing but peace and happiness that literally breaks one of the foundations of writing that there is conflict and halflings seem to roll over and just accept everything if I killed and ate their mother they would not care about one way or the other.
you have one story with them and I could tell that story with literal rock people if I wanted to so can you at least see what they could do with having something they care about?
look as far as I can tell halflings are just sheep in a nearly literal sense they suddenly make sense if you think of them all as livestock but that is so grimdark I hate myself for coming up with it.

World building isn’t important. Races exist to facilitate the players in making player characters.

realistically it is relevant in the sense it makes the bones of the mechanics come to life or sells the player on one set of mechanics.

Yes, there really is, you just refuse to accept it.

None of the other main PHB races can be lifted out of the main settings - Forgotten Realms being the prime example, without massively rewriting the setting. Except, of course, for halflings. Yoinks halflings out of Dark Sun and what happens? Nothing. Why not? Because halflings in Dark Sun don't actually do anything. They don't matter. The only reason they are memorable is because they are cannibals, and that's obviously playing against type. Same with Eberron. Yoink out the dino riding halflings and replace them with anything, and it's the fact that they ride dinosaurs that makes them interesting. It has nothing to do with halflings at all. And, again, they have to basically 100% reject the core presentation - pastoral agrarian farmers who stay at home - in order to make them interesting.

If you have to completely rewrite the race every time you try to use it in a setting, to the point where, other than physical proportions, nothing remains of the core depiction of that race, then that race wasn't very interesting to begin with.

the technically matter in dark sun for backstory reason but people at the time found that controversial to say the least and 4e made it only one possible option as to leave the background more nebulous.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, there really is, you just refuse to accept it.

None of the other main PHB races can be lifted out of the main settings - Forgotten Realms being the prime example, without massively rewriting the setting. Except, of course, for halflings. Yoinks halflings out of Dark Sun and what happens? Nothing. Why not? Because halflings in Dark Sun don't actually do anything. They don't matter. The only reason they are memorable is because they are cannibals, and that's obviously playing against type. Same with Eberron. Yoink out the dino riding halflings and replace them with anything, and it's the fact that they ride dinosaurs that makes them interesting. It has nothing to do with halflings at all. And, again, they have to basically 100% reject the core presentation - pastoral agrarian farmers who stay at home - in order to make them interesting.

If you have to completely rewrite the race every time you try to use it in a setting, to the point where, other than physical proportions, nothing remains of the core depiction of that race, then that race wasn't very interesting to begin with.

Yeah, this is just silly. This argument applies to any race. You can pretty much replace any fantasy race with another fantasy race or humans in any setting. All their cultures are made up anyway. Instead of ancient elven empire you can have an ancient aasimar empire, instead of dwarven miner city you can just have an orcish miner city or human miner city or whatever.

 

[Hussar]

I don't use any races as they're presented in the books, I always put my own spin on things. The books are just a starting point.

Really?

Ok, how are your elves different? Do they live underground perhaps? In the mountains? They hate nature and clear cut the forests? Refuse to use magic? Are predominantly evil? What differentiates your elves from the PHB?

And, again, we're not talking about your table. In fifty years of the game's history, halflings have never mattered. Again, when the core races can't even crack the top 5 most played, with the backing of decades of history, it's maybe time to make room for some new stuff.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, this is just silly. This argument applies to any race. You can pretty much replace any fantasy race with another fantasy race or humans in any setting. All their cultures are made up anyway. Instead of ancient elven empire you can have an ancient aasimar empire, instead of dwarven miner city you can just have an orcish miner city or human miner city or whatever.

Orcs don't build cities. Humans don't build cities underground. An ancient aasimar empire would be considerably different from elves - aasimar have no ties to nature, aren't virtually immortal, and are directly tied to divine powers instead of nature.

And, remember, I didn't say replace. I said REMOVE. You can pull halflings out of most settings and nothing in that setting would change. Not a whit. No one would even notice. None of the history of the setting would change one iota.

Perhaps the most damning of all is that, unless the artist includes something for perspective in the image, halflings are indistinguishable from humans in the art. And, attempts to make them distinguishable get met with very open hostility. It's basically a small core of REALLY devoted fans that are clamped onto this bizarre notion that halflings MUST be in the PHB as a core race when, again, after 50 years, no one else really cares.

But removing them runs into the gnome effect, so, WotC has no choice but to waste page count on crap that has never, ever made any difference to the game.

 

[jayoungr]

Heh, I'd like to introduce you to the 4e PHB if you think that's a sound strategy.

The 4E PHB was not a free product.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Really?

Yes, really. I though that was pretty normal. Don't people do their own setting any more?

Ok, how are your elves different? Do they live underground perhaps? In the mountains? They hate nature and clear cut the forests? Refuse to use magic? Are predominantly evil? What differentiates your elves from the PHB?

There really aren't normal elves in my current setting. They have been combined with halflings into a species of small creatures that have tails and horns. They live in small clans and they have variety of cultures.

In the another setting I was thinking, where they would be separate of halflings, I'm not sure yet. That's super WIP. It kinda is has sort of parody modern twist on classic fantasy tropes, so they probably need to be some sort of forest hippies and/or eco-terrorists. (This setting is unlikely to actually ever be finished.)

And, again, we're not talking about your table. In fifty years of the game's history, halflings have never mattered.

To you.

Again, when the core races can't even crack the top 5 most played, with the backing of decades of history, it's maybe time to make room for some new stuff.

Are people super fussed about the order in which the species are listed in PHB? Like as long as both halflings and dragonborn are in PHB does it matter which of them is part of some 'core four?' Why does there even need to be core races and rarer ones? I get that you can't fit everything in one book, but beyond that it doesn't matter one bit.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You are twisting the point and attacking a strawman.

It isn't that halflings don't go to war and therefore they are worthless, it is that they don't do much of anything, and therefore they are boring.

Also, I'm shocked to hear that no other race in the game believes in peace, happiness, tranquility and joy. I mean, before people start accusing me of twisting your words to say something that you never said, let me bold it, quote it a second time, and bold that " the affront is that they are the only race that believes in peace, tranquility, joy, happiness."

Sorry, other races believe in those things. Other people of the world enjoy simple pleasures of life and want to be happy and joyful. There are even entire religions devoted to it in the game.

Other races also have a history full of conflict. Why? Well... I think it might have something to do with the Undead, Monstrosities, Abberations, Fiends, and other forces of darkness seeking to destroy the world. Sure, it is a real shame when the elves go to war with themselves. That is a tragedy, part of why it is a tragedy is because it weakens the elves. Who are then manipulated by fiends and dark gods to try and snuff out light and happiness across the entire world. Evil is constantly on the move and threatening the gates, and heroes need to step up to stop it. That's the point of the game....

And when you look at halfling lore, you see none of that. What evil? Halflings have never had evil attacking them. Oh, sure, the books tells us that the occassional ogre or tribe of goblins might rough them up, but there is not a single story of halfling lore involving a Fiend trying to manipulate them. They don't stand up to the evil in the world. In fact, the PHB tells us that they are PROTECTED by humans and other races. Like innocent children.

But, the other races? We see churches built to fight back evil. Great cities built to guard against the dangers of the world. They have conflicts where they are actively fighting and defying the great evils.

And, I can already hear people, "but it is the small acts of kindness that-" Yeah, I know. That's what ordinary people are for. That's what the human baker giving bread to orphans is for. But DnD isn't LoTR, the greatest threat to the world isn't a power that corrupts the just and makes them tools of evil. The greatest threats are evil itself leading armies to kill and enslave the good guys. And you don't stop an army of skeletons and ghouls by being kind to your neighbor.

That is why it is so frustrating to see so little in halfling lore. They don't feel like part of the world. They feel like this little idyllic corner of non-reality. And no, again, I'm not saying that everything must always be "war, war never changes" grimdark stupidness and there is no space for kindness and light in the world, but the halflings are too far in the other direction. They are nothing but an idyllic dream of innocent children who have never sinned, and they just sit in their villages being innocent and wide-eyed. They have no beginning, they have plot armor to an insane degree, and they have nothing to make them more than short humans who do nothing but sit in idyllic farmland and smile at the sunset.

They are too disconnected from everything else in DnD. That is the problem. Not that somehow we hate them because they are pure and good and the One True Way of DnD is grim and edgy.

I think you’re taking mordenkainens a bit too seriously. It’s a terrible source of lore.

We know from the PHB that they travel, live amongst other races as much as in thier own communities, many of thier communities are nomadic traders, and that they fight to defend their neighbors. Nothing in the PHB speaks to this childlike wide-eyed innocence you seem to think is definitive.

They’re part of the world. They just don’t impact history much.

We agree that halflings should have more lore, and I will never defend MToF, but “needs more details and specific stories” isn’t the same as “needs to be changed or pushed out of the phb.

 

[Cadence]

Orcs don't build cities. Humans don't build cities underground. An ancient aasimar empire would be considerably different from elves - aasimar have no ties to nature, aren't virtually immortal, and are directly tied to divine powers instead of nature.

"There is also known to exist a great orcish city known as Garel Enkdal in the Griff Mountains."

Are these ones by real humans not underground enough (serious question)? Why There Is a Hidden World of Underground Cities Did the lost city in B4 sink?

If elves are practically immortal in 5e, then what are the things that live 2/3 as long (Gnomes) and 1/2 as long (Dwarves). In any case, they're nothing like the Tolkien kind of immortality. If some druids worship gods is their a reason some Aasimar can't be nature's like whatever divinity their parent serves?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's basically a small core of REALLY devoted fans that are clamped onto this bizarre notion that halflings MUST be in the PHB as a core race when, again, after 50 years, no one else really cares.

We're on page 46 of people who don't "really care" arguing themselves red in the face that halflings shouldn't be in the PHB. I don't know what that is, but it's certainly not apathy.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

and you know which race has the endless number of nameless faces is literally all of them as all player race are social group sapients as opposed creature who are hyper solitary or hive or even one mind may bodies creatures so that is about as relevant a niche as wallpaper is to an ant, no race has a society of all kings or all sanitation workers.

Can you restate this with some grammar? I’m not talking formal speech, but please, I am very tired. Don’t ask me to parse that.