D&D General The Problem with Evil or what if we don't use alignments?

[Maxperson]

That's how I see it and in the context Gary was talking about.

If Orcs are always evil and will come for you.

Would also appt to things like gants wasps.

Now I'm not convinced Orcs always have to be evil so there's that as well.

Orcs have never always been evil. Even in 1e there could be rare exceptions. Starting with 3e whole orc societies were non-evil or even good, and lived side by side with humans.

 

[Zardnaar]

Orcs have never always been evil. Even in 1e there could be rare exceptions. Starting with 3e whole orc societies were non-evil or even good, and lived side by side with humans.

Agree but in Gary's mind they were always a threat/evil I suppose.

 

[Magister Ludorum]

Agree but in Gary's mind they were always a threat/evil I suppose.

Always a threat =/= always evil.

 

[Zardnaar]

Always a threat =/= always evil.

In that context yes.

Imagine you had sentient wasps. They prey on everything and lay eggs in things they kill.

In a very narrow situations where the threat is very real. I used Mind Flayers as an example. If a species feeding and reproduction method requires the death of others it's going to be hard to argue that they're not a threat.

Even that individual Mindflyer who is not evil with a ring of sustenance still resulted in the death if someone else. And if it wants to reproduce someone else has to die.

Very narrow example perhaps with very alien type creatures.

 

[Magister Ludorum]

In that context yes.

Imagine you had sentient wasps. They prey on everything and lay eggs in things they kill.

In a very narrow situations where the threat is very real. I used Mind Flayers as an example. If a species feeding and reproduction method requires the death of others it's going to be hard to argue that they're not a threat.

Even that individual Mindflyer who is not evil with a ring of sustenance still resulted in the death if someone else. And if it wants to reproduce someone else has to die.

Very narrow example perhaps with very alien type creatures.

If they are sentient and free-willed, I would kill them to protect the innocent. If they are sentient, they are not always evil. Some of them somewhere could be good, or at least not evil. I could see a character of mine killing the larvae, but it would be a source of moral anguish for them.

In one of my settings, there is a race called the Dakary, and insectoid race that is dominated by a theocracy that preaches a religion based on food chain, with them at the top and every other race as food. Their religion is evil. Every member of this race ever encountered by the PCs has been evil. A Dakary baby would not be evil if raised in a different environment. I haven't yet decided whether the PCs will encounter a group of Dakary heretics, targeted by their own church/government for extermination. They have (to this point) always been a threat. That doesn't meant that they are ALWAYS evil, even though there have been no counter examples so far.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But Orcs are not inherently evil. They are not so in 5E (and this has been made even clearer of late), were not so in 4E or 3E.

I'm not so sure about prior editions, but when I played 1 and 2E I always assumed Orcs could be good aligned (and had choice in the matter) as rare as that might be due to social reasons (they're raised in evil societies).

Heck, even Demons and Devils and Angels have choice in their alignment (as rare is it can be for them to change alignments).

There was never a rule in any version of D&D that explicitly prevented orcs, or anything else, from changing alignment.

 

[Zardnaar]

If they are sentient and free-willed, I would kill them to protect the innocent. If they are sentient, they are not always evil. Some of them somewhere could be good, or at least not evil. I could see a character of mine killing the larvae, but it would be a source of moral anguish for them.

In one of my settings, there is a race called the Dakary, and insectoid race that is dominated by a theocracy that preaches a religion based on food chain, with them at the top and every other race as food. Their religion is evil. Every member of this race ever encountered by the PCs has been evil. A Dakary baby would not be evil if raised in a different environment. I haven't yet decided whether the PCs will encounter a group of Dakary heretics, targeted by their own church/government for extermination. They have (to this point) always been a threat. That doesn't meant that they are ALWAYS evil, even though there have been no counter examples so far.

I'm thinking they might also have a hivemind which can over ride the free will or the individualism only goes so far.

If you took the larvae somewhere else......

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Imagine you had sentient wasps. They prey on everything and lay eggs in things they kill.

Wirrn.

In The Ark in Space the wirrn leader, recalling the memories of the human it had consumed, deliberately leads the remaining wirrn to destruction, thus saving the human race.

Whatever your plot, Doctor Who has already been there!

 

[Maxperson]

Wirrn.
View attachment 139637
In The Ark in Space the wirrn leader, recalling the memories of the human it had consumed, deliberately leads the remaining wirrn to destruction, thus saving the human race.

Whatever your plot, Doctor Who has already been there!

Seems like a Wirrn-Wirrn situation to me.

 

[Flamestrike]

Wirrn.
View attachment 139637
In The Ark in Space the wirrn leader, recalling the memories of the human it had consumed, deliberately leads the remaining wirrn to destruction, thus saving the human race.

Whatever your plot, Doctor Who has already been there!

No, but we should butcher them without mercy. Like Rico and the Mobile Infantry.

I bet so many people here dont really 'get' what Paul Verhoeven was showing us with Starship Troopers.