D&D General The Problem with Evil or what if we don't use alignments?

[Paul Farquhar]

Ah I think Warhammer has that problem.

Warhammer is driven more by cynicism than satire. There are no good guys.

 

[Flamestrike]

I play a game Stellaris. Lots of online edgelords create the Imperium of Man or a Chapterhouse in MP games.

Edgelord gonna edgelord.

 

[Flamestrike]

Warhammer is driven more by cynicism than satire. There are no good guys.

Marneus bloody Calgar disagrees.

Mary Sue of all Mary Sues.

 

[Zardnaar]

Warhammer is driven more by cynicism than satire. There are no good guys.

Yeah it's grimdark. I find it stupid myself.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Blade runner does a similar thing.

The "Tiers in the Rain" speech in Blade Runner lays it's cards on the table. Starship Troopers never has an equivalent moment. If you can't read subtext it reads as the opposite. Lets go stamp on some slimy bugs!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah it's grimdark. I find it stupid myself.

Britain in the 70s and 80s was a very cynical place. I do worry about British cynicism - without the hope that things can get better there is no incentive to fight.

 

[Flamestrike]

The "Tiers in the Rain" speech in Blade Runner lays it's cards on the table. Starship Troopers never has an equivalent moment. If you can't read subtext it reads as the opposite. Lets go stamp on some slimy bugs!

The finale that has Neil Patrick Harris mind probing the 'brain' bug and it being terrified of everyone and everyone cheering is pretty much that moment.

 

[Imaculata]

I took it as mocking fascism/authoritarianism maybe military industrial complex.

It is. Verhoeven draws a direct comparison between the US military industrial complex, patriotism, and how it has inherent fascist undertones. But despite how unsubtle it is in its satire, it was still too subtle for a lot of people; the essence of satire in my opinion: to mock a thing so accurately that it can almost be taken as serious as the very thing it is mocking.

Satire can make people think, and reevaluate their own position. Maybe we shouldn't be cheering for these dumb soldiers in their nazi uniforms, eager to jump into a pointless meatgrinder? And maybe we shouldn't believe the propaganda fed to us throughout the movie? And if people can reach that conclusion, they may reflect upon the real world, and reconsider another Vietnam or Iraq.

While my own D&D campaigns are far from a satire, I do try to weave some historical facts into the setting to educate my players and make them reflect on our real world history. I confront them with the complex political structures and the corruption inherent to those systems of governance. I make them think about morality and good and evil in subtle ways.

I want to show my players that just because a paladin is "lawful good", does not mean he's a good guy. In some cases, it depends which side you are on. Given the fact that we see the action from the point of view of the players, they are the heroes of the story, and there for the good guys. But there are other characters who may believe they are doing the right thing and being lawful while doing so.

If a paladin believes the players are evil, and is following explicit instructions from his church to kill them, does that make him evil? I don't think it does.

 

[Zardnaar]

It is. Verhoeven draws a direct comparison between the US military industrial complex, patriotism, and how it has inherent fascist undertones. But despite how unsubtle it is in its satire, it was still too subtle for a lot of people; the essence of satire in my opinion: to mock a thing so accurately that it can almost be taken as serious as the very thing it is mocking.

Satire can make people think, and reevaluate their own position. Maybe we shouldn't be cheering for these dumb soldiers in their nazi uniforms, eager to jump into a pointless meatgrinder? And maybe we shouldn't believe the propaganda fed to us throughout the movie? And if people can reach that conclusion, they may reflect upon the real world, and reconsider another Vietnam or Iraq.

While my own D&D campaigns are far from a satire, I do try to weave some historical facts into the setting to educate my players and make them reflect on our real world history. I confront them with the complex political structures and the corruption inherent to those systems of governance. I make them think about morality and good and evil in subtle ways.

Only saw the the first 1-2 movies never really looked into it.

The humans don't come across as sympathetic it's been years since I've seen the movies though.

 

[Imaculata]

The humans don't come across as sympathetic it's been years since I've seen the movies though.

They don't to me either. And I think a strong argument can be made that the entire war on Klendathu is a false flag operation, where the humans are the invaders. Considering the entire movie is presented as a piece of propaganda, the meteor landing on Buenos Aires halfway through the movie, may be a lie as well.

A good friend of mine is a big Warhammer fan. So when he saw the movie for the first time, he thought it was great, and didn't question it at all. He didn't recognize any of the satire, because he viewed it through a different lense; that of a Warhammer fanboy seeing soldiers fight epic battles with giant bugs. And sure, the movie can also be enjoyed at that base level. There is nothing wrong with that.