D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

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Doesn't Sam go from eavesdropping to fighting shelob and becoming mayor? Is the long time ring bearer thing a bit different - earning Frodo a quick passage to the west?
Yeah the idea that Sam and Frodo don't level up is just...flat out incorrect. The idea that they don't face any real challenges or threats is....oof. I question whether someone who thinks that has even read the books, or if maybe it's just been a very long time, or what, because no. Not even remotely true.
 

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"Becoming a mayor" is less suitable for a D&D class. But it is excellent as part of a Background at a higher tier.

Everything else seems to confirm the point by @Chaosmancer that the Hobbits dont actually advance in any class, and seem inherently unsuitable for D&D. One might as well have "home maker" as a lineage.

Merry, Pippen, and Sam went from pretty useless to fighting Nazgul, a mythic spider, and a demigod who took over their town? That feels like advancement?
 

Pathfinder tried to have everything totally specified to make sure it was clear...

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So, no countering dragons breath, but antimagic field supresses it
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The vampire still casts a shadow
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I like the clarity. I probably want it a bit simpler. It is either magic or not. I would not distinguish between spell, spell-like, and supernatural.

(Extraordinary ≈ martial power source ≈ ambient magic)

Consider Psionics. The "mind" is nonmagical. But the mind can engage the "weave" directly. Thus the mind can cast psionic spells, and various kinds of effects. The spells etcetera are magic.

By "weave" I dont mean Forgotten Realms. I mean any kind of interpretive method to explain magical potential. Different magical traditions have different theories of magic. The Psion might see everything as made out of interconnecting thought. The Wizard might see different features of nature having different magical properties that can be exploited as spell components. And so on.
 

This is an odd take.. There seems to be an opening assumption that there was much of a pre-existing game to mesh with where all this rich and varied backstory was already tied together, strongly tying other races into the game..Which seems rather backward vs. my understanding of where D&D lore comes from.

Additionally, I'm legitimately curious what "melding into the game" actually looks like. What would be a good example of the appropriate amount of entanglement?

(Also, to be clear, I'm not saying that you're wrong about how tied to D&D worlds halflings are. I tend to agree that they are factually underrepresented. I just don't think that underrepresentation is tied to anything inherent about the race even with the Tolkien influence.)

The melding is how elven, human, dwarf, goblin, and orc gods hate each other and have their fates entwined. How those created noticeable defenses against the monster of D&D or are entwined in their lore. Their lore involves aspects of the world by name and you have direct lore bits to pull from as connections between the humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, dragons, undead, celestials, and fiends.

Halfling lore feels separate from the rest of the world in most setting. Isolated on purpose, via apathy, or accidentally.
 



Granted, I think we could better point to Dungeon of the Mad Mage for a better representation of dwarves. Granted, they don't appear as NPC's all that often, but, that's not really the issue. You seem focused solely on NPC's. I'm talking about how the race is presented across the material. An empty dwarven mine for an adventuring site is still adding to dwarf information in the game. It's presenting where dwarves used to live, even if they don't live there now, and presumably adding to the history of dwarves in the setting.
See, here's your problems:

1: You assume that everyone should or already does slavishly follow the published splatbooks adventures in determining how their world is structured and how the races are presented in their world.

2: You think having an empty adventure location (i.e., one where the PCs are expected to go forth and kill things and steal stuff, not one where PCs actually live) is somehow superior to saying that there are living towns full of living people all over the place or references to equally interesting things that aren't mapped out, like a halfling pirate.

So let's deal with this.

First off, yes, there are people who run directly from the books and assume everything in them is canon and world-changing. That annoys the heck out of me, which is why I'm hoping that, should WotC produce Planescape for 5e, they ignore the Faction Wars.

But there's also lots of people who don't run directly from the published adventures and ignore parts, make substitutions, or just grab interesting sections and ignore the rest--or who don't run from published adventures at all.

Secondly, what interesting lore does either STK or DotMM add to dwarfs? I will admit I'm not reading them too carefully, on the off-chance I might play through them one day. But here's what I found: a dwarf mine that has been taken over by monsters; a dwarf brewery that has been taken over by monsters; a dwarf stonecarving hall that has been taken over by monsters. A level of the dungeon that I think was made by dwarfs but I can't really tell and anyway it has been taken over by monsters.

So the "dwarf information" these adventures add to the game, as far as I can tell is: dwarfs are miners, dwarfs are brewers, dwarfs are stonecarvers, dwarfs are really bad at not preventing monsters from taking over their homes, and dwarfs can make locks that can only be opened by dwarfs.

The first three bits of info are already really well-known and the fourth bit is giving me flashbacks to all the "fun" I had playing Dwarf Fortress. The last bit is actually interesting, but I'm not seeing anything that suggests that this is limited to dwarfs only and that no other race can make a racially-biased lock.

Unless there's some great font of information about dwarven history or mythology in those adventures that I missed and that is equally as useful in Eberron, Greyhawk, or my homebrew world as it is in the Realms, which I would never run a game in? Because I don't care if the dwarves fought against the Zhentarim or if this dwarf became a Harper when I don't use either the Zhentarim or the Harpers in my games.

Secondly... those are dead places. They exist solely for the PCs to enter and kill things. There no actual life in them. Any lore that you do find is old. There's nothing that tells you how dwarfs currently live or what they think of their lore or history.

It's not just that they lack use as NPC's, halflings lack use AT ALL. Like I said, show me an example of a halfling village in the adventures. Apparently there's one in Rime. 10 years and 14 modules in, we get to see our very first halfling village. Yeah, I'm just swimming in information. How do people keep track of this flood of knowledge?
Because we don't need the books to spell it out for us? We know what halflings are like, we know what villages are like. We can combine the two quite easily. As I showed when I described a halfling village for you, which you conveniently ignored.
 

But Elves aren't Charismatic.
That is the problem. The Elf flavor is bardic, artistic, charming, and innately magical, meaning Charisma. But their mechanics are conflictive.

The only reason they have Dex is because Tolkien gave them bows. But even the bows really refer to "elfshot" which is a magical effect, more like a specific cantrip. Their sneakiness is properly because of their magical nature.

Anyways I am delighted that Tashas has officially jettisoned the Elf Dexterity. Charisma and Charisma magic can finally match Elf flavor.

Only Half elves are, and that's because elves are jerks to them.
Half Elf Charisma is the one that makes sense − and they inherited it from their parentage.

And elves being a racists is no longer a thing in 4e and 5e.
 

I have no idea why you think it would be a matter of opinion. Does your copy of the game not have levels? Do you know of many games of DnD where people never level up?

Yes, I see it as a fact that DnD has major themes involving the gathering of power. I also see it as a fact that Tolkien's work has major themes of the rejection of power. Those two things are at odds, they are literal opposites.

And, it doesn't matter that it is a "player-facing theme" because it is fundamental to how the game works and is presented. You could say Tolkien's theme was "reader facing" because it wasn't a racial drive either.

And actually, there was no leveling up for Sam and Frodo, the two who did the most good. They didn't really learn any new skills or gain any new powers. In fact, for the vast majority of the time, Sam and Frodo don't encounter any threats. The biggest is Gollum, which isn't a combat threat and is much more about the interpersonal relationships.
OMG..

Is this the way you think discussion works? The course of things:
  1. I ask you a direct question.
  2. You evade it, and ask me a question.
  3. I answer your question directly
  4. You answer your question too
Seriously, wth?? So I guess I will wind up quoting myself...again.
Your position..
Are halflings, the race, designed to nearly perfectly emulate hobbits, the race, a bad fit for DnD? Yes
The question you keep evading
Opinion.. or objective truth?

I'll respond to the Tolkien stuff in a separate post to keep this part nice and tidy.
 


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