D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Minigiant]

Be famous for bardic skills like songs and so on is Charisma.

Art and esthetics and Performance are Charisma.

Being "hauntingly" beautiful, in the sense of superhumanly beautiful, is Charisma magic.

And so on.

Dexterity is dead wrong.

That's skill not talent

Elves should be intelligence based becase of long live.

And Beauty isn't Charismatic anymore.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Half Elf Charisma is the one that makes sense − and they inherited it from their parentage.

And elves being a racists is no longer a thing in 4e and 5e.

Ironically, by doing so, they made half-elves less interesting as a “child of two worlds” character. For that reason, I now play half-orcs to fill that space.

 

[Yaarel]

That's skill not talent

Elves should be intelligence based becase of long live.

And Beauty isn't Charismatic anymore.

Charisma skills, artistically visually appealing, charming, and magical beauty are Charisma.

Compare the 5e Dryad − many flavors are the same as 5e Elf, including physical beauty, and all of it Charisma.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Be famous for bardic skills like songs and so on is Charisma.

Art and esthetics and Performance are Charisma.

Being "hauntingly" beautiful, in the sense of superhumanly beautiful, is Charisma magic.

And so on.

Dexterity is dead wrong.

I wouldn’t say dead wrong. I would say that there is a case for both Dex and Cha.

If you don’t want to end up with 2e’s “elves are awesome at everything!” paradigm, you’re best bet is to split elves into subraces. Though I agree that more than 3 gets excessive.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yes, I see it as a fact that DnD has major themes involving the gathering of power. I also see it as a fact that Tolkien's work has major themes of the rejection of power. Those two things are at odds, they are literal opposites.

And, it doesn't matter that it is a "player-facing theme" because it is fundamental to how the game works and is presented. You could say Tolkien's theme was "reader facing" because it wasn't a racial drive either.

And actually, there was no leveling up for Sam and Frodo, the two who did the most good. They didn't really learn any new skills or gain any new powers. In fact, for the vast majority of the time, Sam and Frodo don't encounter any threats. The biggest is Gollum, which isn't a combat threat and is much more about the interpersonal relationships.)

I really don't get your usage of the word "fact". Like, you realize that it means something different than "interpretation", right? Whatever, moving on.

So in your opinion, Frodo, Sam (and let's say Gollum) could have been magically transported from the Shire to Mordor and would have performed about the same? And they gained no magic rings, no magic swords, no magic flash lights, no weird rope, no magic tree seeds, or anything other valuable thing along the way? And none of these things was used to defeat say a giant spider in her lair? Or taken back home?

Maybe we just read different books?

In either case, it seems like you've only (badly) accounted for half of Tolkien's halfling adventurers. I assume then that for Merry and Pippin, we're leaving them out because it directly contradicts your argument... or maybe they just slipped your mind?

It does matter whether you are talking about themes for your world vs. themes for your protagonists. The Fellowship and D&D PCs are the protagonists. These would be your apples you should be comparing your apples against. And, as it turns out, they are comparable.

Otherwise your argument is "the halfling heroes in Tolkien's world rejected power (which is kinda untrue). D&D halfling PCs are expected to gather power. Therefore the halfling race is unsuitable"

It logically does not follow.

 

[FrozenNorth]

And, up until fairly recently, weren't common PC choices--you had to hope your DM let you use whatever book they were in.

Since at least 2008 (4e Forgotten Realms Player Guide). And that is not even counting the Drizzt clones of the 90s and 2000s.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I wouldn’t say dead wrong. I would say that there is a case for both Dex and Cha.

If you don’t want to end up with 2e’s “elves are awesome at everything!” paradigm, you’re best bet is to split elves into subraces. Though I agree that more than 3 gets excessive.

The “variant elves are in every ecosystem “ was annoying to me on a variety of levels. Ignoring the aquatics, no scratch homebrew of mine ever included more than 3 variants (of any sentient species).

The post-apocalyptic one I designed years ago had 3 elven variants: the magically luminous Asteraiinen, the Svartolaiinen who were darkness personified, and the Vertolaiinen, who had used magic to merge themselves with the world’s flora.

 

[Yaarel]

I wouldn’t say dead wrong. I would say that there is a case for both Dex and Cha.

Even for Tolkien, Legolas feels Cha-Dex, but Galadriel feels Cha-Int.

In both cases, Cha is primary.

For Gygax however the mechanical considerations quickly evolved the Tolkien Elf into a Dexterity concept. Mainly because Gygax hated demihumans and didnt want Elves to be high level fullcasters, meanwhile interpreting bow and hiding as if nonmagical.

If you don’t want to end up with 2e’s “elves are awesome at everything!” paradigm, you’re best bet is to split elves into subraces. Though I agree that more than 3 gets excessive.

For me, the most important Elf concepts are Norse and Scottish. Both are unambiguously Charisma concepts. Norse leans toward Intelligence. Scottish leans toward superhuman Strength. If they could use Charisma as the spellcasting ability for any class, then:

• Norse: Psion, Bard, Druid
• Scottish: Warlock (but healers), Paladin (Ancients, Faerie Knight)

 

[Yaarel]

If I could rethink the D&D elves, I would do something like:

Fey Elf: Charisma
• Sun Elf: Cha-Int
• Moon Elf: Cha-Str

Material Elf: Dexterity
• High Elf: Dex-Int
• Wood Elf: Dex-Wis

Fey and Material are separate lineages.

The rest are cultures: Drow Elf is mostly a Wood Elf, Grey Elf is mostly a Sun Elf, Shadar-Kai is mostly a High Elf, Aquatic is mostly a Moon Elf, Grugach is mostly a Moon Elf, Tulani is Sun Elf, Fiere is Moon Elf, and so on.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Or perhaps they're just a a big scary devil thing and it is frightening to be close to them? Who knows! But it really doesn't matter, it is not a meaningful distinction to begin with.

Perhaps for you, but as someone with direct experience being told what my character was feeling? It is a very important distinction.