D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Hussar]

The fact that you think Critical Role is not in the “same zip code” as FR is…just laughable.

Do you seriously think that Critical Role, a quite popular Youtube program that's, what, five, six years old, is on the same level as Forgotten Realms, a setting with literally hundreds of authors, thousands of books, published in multiple languages, that features on best seller lists pretty regularly, has spawned numerous video games, comic books, and who knows what else?

Seriously? Like I said, I can walk into my small town library here in Japan and find Forgotten Realms books in Japanese. How many Critical Role things do you think I could find here?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sorry, I'm not sure what conclusion you're drawing here. Are you sayin that CR is as widely known as Forgotten Realms?

No. It is more widely known.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Do you seriously think that Critical Role, a quite popular Youtube program that's, what, five, six years old, is on the same level as Forgotten Realms, a setting with literally hundreds of authors, thousands of books, published in multiple languages, that features on best seller lists pretty regularly, has spawned numerous video games, comic books, and who knows what else?

Seriously? Like I said, I can walk into my small town library here in Japan and find Forgotten Realms books in Japanese. How many Critical Role things do you think I could find here?

And how many people are actually reading those books and how many people are watching Critical Role?

 

[Yora]

No. It is more widely known.

That sounds indeed very unlikely. What do you base this on?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Do you seriously think that Critical Role, a quite popular Youtube program that's, what, five, six years old, is on the same level as Forgotten Realms, a setting with literally hundreds of authors, thousands of books, published in multiple languages, that features on best seller lists pretty regularly, has spawned numerous video games, comic books, and who knows what else?

Seriously? Like I said, I can walk into my small town library here in Japan and find Forgotten Realms books in Japanese. How many Critical Role things do you think I could find here?

I will say Critical Role is pretty huge. They are actually ongoing (third season got started recently), they have books and comics, an animated series in the works and a charitable foundation.

In fact, the show got big enough that a bunch of professional voice actors started making it its own company.

Now, it doesn't have the international reach that decades of FR novels do. I first found Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms in my school library and as you say, it is everywhere. However, I think that the FR novels have been declining in quality for a while, and are on the decline, while Critical Role is on the rise. How they will end up is anyone's guess really, but CR is certainly shaping a large part of the DnD audience and market today.

 

[Raduin711]

I am about 168 pages late to the party, but I think their niche is how they are the simple, provincial race who really just want to put their oversized feet up, stick their fishing pole in the water, and watch the day go by in time to head to the pub for a drink. The thing that sets them apart from other races is that they have a severe lack of ambition.

This is how they end up as rogues; they don't have the stomach for either front-line combat, or the study of volatile magic, or the level of devotion it takes to be a divine caster. So they lean towards the tricks of the trade: Why learn the intricacies of swordplay when you can just learn where to stick it to 'em when their back is turned, and end the fight quickly? Earn your keep picking locks and disabling traps! And it's almost like these feet were made for sneaking...

But it is this lack of ambition that is one of their defining traits, and in a world filled with ambitious races, it's no wonder we are all scratching our heads wondering what to do with them. But that is kind of the point. You don't DO anything with them. Not everyone has to be part of a great struggle for supremacy, or out to show how great and mighty they are. Some people just want to be left alone in a nice quiet place, and halflings are the result of that legacy. And sometimes they get dragged off on adventures or feel some wanderlust.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So basically:

Forgotten Realms have sucky halflings. For whatever reason, WotC has decided to focus on the Realms. Therefore, all halflings must be assumed to be similar to Realms halflings, and no halflings in other settings should be used as an example of good halflings, because... WotC has pushed a setting with sucky halflings.

It's a bit of a No True Scotsmen thing: trying to prove that halflings suck by saying that the settings where they are cool don't count for some arbitrary reason.


I generally assume that people hear about settings through word of mouth, or through seeing that they exist and then asking other people about them, or looking through the associated wiki or subreddit. "Dino-riding halflings" is one of the things that always gets mentioned when Eberron is asked about. Kind of like "weirdly British hippos with guns and bombs" always gets mentioned when Spelljammer is asked about. "Dragonmarked houses" also gets mentioned a lot when Eberron is brought up, and from there, the fact that halflings have two of them.

If it makes you feel better to think of it that we are trying to change the lore of the Forgotten Realms halfling instead of the PHB halfling, go for it. The fact that the two are basically synonymous doesn't change anything about what we are saying. I mean, the PHB halfling is also the Greyhawk Halfling because there is no other source in 5e for that. And they are the halfling that any budding world-builder is given to work with (cause, in the PHB). And they are the halfling for basically anything that isn't Eberron or Dark Sun (which require you to buy an additional book)

But sure, you can pretend that us trying to improve the Core Rulebook Halfling, presented to every single person who buys a PHB or downloads the Basic Rules, or gets a DnD Beyond Subscription, or gets a Roll20 subscription, or ect ect ect, is just because Forgotten Realms sucks.

Funny how no other race seems to have this "they are specifically from FR" problem (well, except humans, which was a stupid decision) but since we agree there is a problem, can we agree to fix it?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If it makes you feel better to think of it that we are trying to change the lore of the Forgotten Realms halfling instead of the PHB halfling, go for it. The fact that the two are basically synonymous doesn't change anything about what we are saying. I mean, the PHB halfling is also the Greyhawk Halfling because there is no other source in 5e for that. And they are the halfling that any budding world-builder is given to work with (cause, in the PHB). And they are the halfling for basically anything that isn't Eberron or Dark Sun (which require you to buy an additional book)

But sure, you can pretend that us trying to improve the Core Rulebook Halfling, presented to every single person who buys a PHB or downloads the Basic Rules, or gets a DnD Beyond Subscription, or gets a Roll20 subscription, or ect ect ect, is just because Forgotten Realms sucks.

Funny how no other race seems to have this "they are specifically from FR" problem (well, except humans, which was a stupid decision) but since we agree there is a problem, can we agree to fix it?

But PHB halfling is fine. Or equally fine than any other PHB race description. Couple of pages of mediocre generic fluff, take it or leave it. That's it. None of them are super interesting, none of them are terrible.

Now if the complaint is that FR adds a lot of stuff for other races, but not for halflings... Frankly, I don't know if that is true, nor I care.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I am about 168 pages late to the party, but I think their niche is how they are the simple, provincial race who really just want to put their oversized feet up, stick their fishing pole in the water, and watch the day go by in time to head to the pub for a drink. The thing that sets them apart from other races is that they have a severe lack of ambition.

This is how they end up as rogues; they don't have the stomach for either front-line combat, or the study of volatile magic, or the level of devotion it takes to be a divine caster. So they lean towards the tricks of the trade: Why learn the intricacies of swordplay when you can just learn where to stick it to 'em when their back is turned, and end the fight quickly? Earn your keep picking locks and disabling traps! And it's almost like these feet were made for sneaking...

But it is this lack of ambition that is one of their defining traits, and in a world filled with ambitious races, it's no wonder we are all scratching our heads wondering what to do with them. But that is kind of the point. You don't DO anything with them. Not everyone has to be part of a great struggle for supremacy, or out to show how great and mighty they are. Some people just want to be left alone in a nice quiet place, and halflings are the result of that legacy. And sometimes they get dragged off on adventures or feel some wanderlust.

It has nothing to do with a lack of ambition.

You know, maybe this is a generational problem. Because when I picture why my PCs go adventuring, it is rarely because they want to show the world how great and mighty they are. It is because Gnolls are attacking the nearby village and killing people and need to be stopped. Or some crazy cult is trying to summon Orcus to the mortal plane, leading to the death of everyone and needs to be stopped. Or Mind Flayers have infiltrated society and are turning the people into mind slaves and need to be stopped. Or Giants are gathering an army to pillage and raid and kill people and need to be stopped. Or an Archdevil is trying to find an artifact of power to draw a city into the Nine Hells, dooming thousands of souls to a fate worse than death and needs to be stopped.

You might have noticed a pattern.

And, in response to these threats, the races of Men, Elves and Dwarves have banded together to fight to keep people alive and free.

Meanwhile, Halflings have kicked their feet up by the pond, fishing, and relying on humans to keep them safe. And their most iconic class is the thief, sneaking and stealing from the fellows in a bizarre manner that seems completely at odds with their supposedly kind and generous nature.

And maybe, if you drag them kicking and screaming, they will actually stand up next to the other races to try and deal with the world's problems, but for the most part you guys want them to be isolated in their little perfect communities that are never under threat, because someone needs to be unimportant common people in a world full of common people just trying to get by.

 

[Raduin711]

It has nothing to do with a lack of ambition.

You know, maybe this is a generational problem. Because when I picture why my PCs go adventuring, it is rarely because they want to show the world how great and mighty they are. It is because Gnolls are attacking the nearby village and killing people and need to be stopped. Or some crazy cult is trying to summon Orcus to the mortal plane, leading to the death of everyone and needs to be stopped. Or Mind Flayers have infiltrated society and are turning the people into mind slaves and need to be stopped. Or Giants are gathering an army to pillage and raid and kill people and need to be stopped. Or an Archdevil is trying to find an artifact of power to draw a city into the Nine Hells, dooming thousands of souls to a fate worse than death and needs to be stopped.

You might have noticed a pattern.

And, in response to these threats, the races of Men, Elves and Dwarves have banded together to fight to keep people alive and free.

Meanwhile, Halflings have kicked their feet up by the pond, fishing, and relying on humans to keep them safe. And their most iconic class is the thief, sneaking and stealing from the fellows in a bizarre manner that seems completely at odds with their supposedly kind and generous nature.

And maybe, if you drag them kicking and screaming, they will actually stand up next to the other races to try and deal with the world's problems, but for the most part you guys want them to be isolated in their little perfect communities that are never under threat, because someone needs to be unimportant common people in a world full of common people just trying to get by.

Well, PC's are exceptional no matter what race they are from. They are the superheroes of the D&D setting, saving the world from gnolls, mindflayers, devils, etc.

As for Men, Elves, Dwarves, etc. they seem to spend a lot of time fighting themselves and each other, building empires and fighting over them.

It's just that the halfling peoples aren't interested in power or empire building. Which sort of begs the question of how they are able to carve out these little idyllic agrarian communities without doing that. But maybe that's just it; they win the game by refusing to play. When war comes into their valleys, you can expect resistance... But unlike Men, Elves and Dwarves you never hear about a great halfling necromancer trying to take over the world, or a halfling wizard accidentally opening some gate to hell, or a halfling warlord going to war with his kin. They just don't do those kinds of things that end up putting the world at risk...