D&D 5E Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the various version can merge into one single form.

Takhisis is the five-headed dragon god of evil from the Dragonlance setting. Paladine is the platinum dragon god of good (and also Fizban's alter-ego).

Additionally, the book will contain psychic gem dragons, with stats for all four age categories of the five varieties (traditionally there are Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, and Topaz), plus Dragonborn characters based on metallic, chromatic, and gem dragons.

D&D 5E - Check out Fizban's Alternate Cover!

WotC's James Wyatt talked to Polygon about Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, which also revealed the alternate cover, which you can only get from hobby stores. https://www.enworld.org/threads/fizbans-treasury-the-dragon-book-now-has-a-description-and-a-feat.681399/

www.enworld.org

D&D 5E - Fizban's Treasury: The Dragon Book Now Has A Description... And A Feat

Courtesy of Amazon, we now have a description for Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, the October D&D hardcover. The book introduces gem dragons, dragon-themed player options, and plenty of draconic lore! This joins September's The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and November's Strixhaven: Curriculum of...

www.enworld.org

 

[dave2008]

Maybe they are like "Aspects" from 3.5 Miniature handbook. Paladine and Bahamut would be something like Peter Parker(Spiderman) and Scarlet Spider(Ben Reilly), both are the same but different, or like Logan/Wolwerine and Laura Kinney/X-23, or Jean Grey and Madeline Prior. Or the döppleganger characters from a mirror universe or parallel earth.

I read somewhere the book contains "Aspects" of the dragon gods. So I think you are correct!

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Yep, this was always the best and most logical way to reconcile how the gods can both be the same and different from one another... it also just makes sense for a deity in a Multiverse. You have to be "All-Seeing" so should try to have a presence on as many worlds as possible, but inevitably these aspects will end up looking a little different based on their environments.

So the gods are simultaneously acting with different avatars on different worlds, while also still maintaining some consistencies across all aspects.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

Yes, I believe that was the one.

I will see what I can find. The 3e comment is a post by WotC (can remember who) on their website. So some people say that it is not "official" because it was not in a product, despite the source. The 4e one I honestly don't remember, but the 5e one is actually in the DMG (and now this book it seems). The Orb of Dragonkind entry says:

"The dragon essence within the orb might want many things: the annihilation of a particular people, freedom from the orb, to spread suffering in the world, to advance the worship of Takhisis (Tiamat’s name on Krynn), or something else the DM decides."

I understand fizban and bahamut being the same, but Takhisis and Tiamat always seemed different. I always equated Takhisis more to Shar in terms of personality and scope, compared to Tiamat who just sort of always comes off to me as “just a big dragon that people keep summoning every edition”

 

[darjr]

Yeah, I'm sure they will. Just, hopefully they won't decide that any of the Sovereigns are actually avatars of Paladine. They've muddied the Eberron cosmology enough.

Why would they be related? They're from completely separate worlds. This is like assuming that bats and owls must surely be closely related since they both fly at night. And I've never seen any depiction of Tiamat as such that remotely reminded me of Takhisis beyone "is evil" and the silhouette. Hell, I cant recall Tiamat ever appearing to anyone as a dark haired femme fatale with a dope crown. Paladine and Bahamut I can kinda see, at least in Paladine's guise as a human paladin and the fact they both like to wander in unassuming human forms and are heavily worshipped by paladin types, etc.

But even if they were more similar in presentation, my stance would be to differentiate them more clearly, not to combine them.

Exactly. If I had my way, the worlds of DnD would stay an actual multi-verse, rather than a shared universe that gets called a multiverse even though all the worlds you make characters in are on the same plane of existence. Dragonlance should be in it's own cosmology, as should FR, and Greyhawk, and Athas, and Eberron, and whatever they come up with next. Let Planescape and the like present an alternate cosmology that combines all the worlds. No one in 2021 under the age of 50 is confused by AUs.

Why try to make it about "upset"? People have preferences. Literally no one has expressed any strong emotions about the topic.

Or do you not know that the idea of being upset is commonly used to invalidate the opinions of others?

I didn’t mean anything quite as extreme as that. But folks do seem unhappy.

I think people should be allowed to be upset over things. I just don’t get it in this case.

 

[Bolares]

If you want the TVA to come and prune your Dragon Gods, that's how you do it.

 

[Bolares]

Is this where we find out Dol Arrah and Paladine are the same?

I kind of do that in my games already. At least in the "some people believe the Host are ancient dragons" camp.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

I kind of do that in my games already. At least in the "some people believe the Host are ancient dragons" camp.

Yeah! Like I was being kind of sarcastic but the lore DOES support it in some areas

 

[Orius]

As far as I'm aware of, Tiamat/Takhsis "are" the same and the same could be said for Bahamut/Paladine as well since both are Platinum Scaled dragons. And since now Dragons have "echoes" of their alternate reality versions and stuff, well there ya go.

I say leave it up to the DM. I'm pretty sure the original Dragonlance modules intended them to be the same more or less, but TSR went and muddied things up for reasons. It's not really a big deal anyway.

And still no one will include Saridor in any of their worlds.

Sardior is on my list of dragon gods.

 

[Bolares]

They've muddied the Eberron cosmology enough.

Did they?

 

[Bolares]

Yeah! Like I was being kind of sarcastic but the lore DOES support it in some areas

Yes, but what I like the most is that this is all just theorized. Dragon gods can be as true as you want