D&D 5E On rulings, rules, and Twitter, or: How Sage Advice Changed

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Except if you want to claim an objective standard, you have to show your work. Otherwise it just a claim.
Everything is just a claim. "There is no one true way" and "the most important thing is fun" is equally just a claim. You're arguing against me trying set a standard by claiming it violates your own standard. :)
 

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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
For realz, hit points, experience points, character levels -- all just horrible meta-currencies.
Sorry, I was unclear in my phrasing. I have no problem with meta-currencies per se. I was only intending to express grievance with when a game encourages the GM to award meta-currencies at their discretion for “good roleplaying” or the like. Meta-currencies themselves are perfectly fine, I just don’t like when the GM is supposed to judge players’ roleplaying and hand out punishments or rewards based on that judgment.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist

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TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Sorry, I was unclear in my phrasing. I have no problem with meta-currencies per se. I was only intending to express grievance with when a game encourages the GM to award meta-currencies at their discretion for “good roleplaying” or the like. Meta-currencies themselves are perfectly fine, I just don’t like when the GM is supposed to judge players’ roleplaying and hand out punishments or rewards based on that judgment.
Agreed there. I have no trouble with them if it's a group decision, like the MVP in Burning Wheel. But I don't like to constantly pass judgment on players.
 

mrpopstar

Sparkly Dude
The problem there is so much greater than blaming the player. thThey don't have any mechanical don't. They don't describe anything meaningful about the character like high level personality traits. They dont really require the player to make any effort at working with the gm to make sure they fit the setting or campaign. So on and so forth. Blame the player might be justified if bift did something meaningful... but they don't
I'm inclined to push your thinking on how they don't really require the player to make any effort toward working with the Dungeon Master. The DM is the lead storyteller and referee. There is no game if players are not working with them. If you believe that 5th Edition is about rulings not rules, the statement you've made here challenges that belief.


Maybe better for you. I want my PC's personality to grow organically from backstory and play. BIFTs may give me some ideas but 90% of the time I ignore them.

Other systems may work better for you, they would not add to my enjoyment of the game. From discussions I've had with other people, I'm not alone.
I'm familiar enough with you to bet my life that any backstory you bring to the table already includes one ideal, one bond, and one flaw baked in. Those three characteristics provide the Dungeon Master with three threads they might pull as they weave a story that is inclusive of your character.

The soul of the matter is that these personal characteristics are story cues. They tell the truth about your character but they don't tell the whole story.


Not so much. Let me explain why I hate approval-cookies.

There's a game called Tenra Bansho Zero where virtually everything you do is dependent on currency that you earn by impressing the other players and GM into giving it to you. I played it once with two other PCs. I made a nice shounen-anime-style rifle specialist that I thought I would enjoy playing. The other two made madcap comedy characters. They spent the whole session trying to outdo each other in hilariousness and getting showered with currency every time either one of them opened their mouths. I was then stuck as the lone "straight man" in the group and gained the currency that fueled my moves at a far slower rate than the others. It seemed pretty clear that they were giving it to me for ordinary things when they remembered to, mostly out of pity because they realized I didn't have any, rather than because they genuinely were impressed by anything I did.
That sounds like a terrible gaming experience. I'm sorry you had to sit through that.
:(

I also appreciate you not reading my question as being snarky. I was fearful I didn't express myself well by asking it.
:)
And once I realized this was happening, it just made me insecure and self-conscious about everything I did. It got me thinking in terms of "How can I get their attention and make them give me currency?" instead of being actually immersed in the story or my character. It made me count how many resources I was getting in comparison to the others and brood about what that meant about my roleplaying skills, or at least their opinion of my roleplaying skills. It was an extremely unhappy gaming experience for me, and I really don't want to go anywhere near repeating it. So I shy away from any mechanic that's fueled by rewards for "good roleplaying," especially when that reward fuels an unrelated task somewhere down the line. Like, for example, the "bennies" in Savage Worlds.
If you'll allow, inspiration as a reward for "good roleplaying" in Dungeons & Dragons has clear parameters. The most important part is that it rewards contributions that make the game more enjoyable for everyone. If that isn't what's happening, then I see an opportunity for a discussion about what we want out of game night.


Some people like the spotlight, others don't. Some people go all-in on expressing their character, others feel uncomfortable doing it.

I want to accommodate both types of players.
It's about character action, not player acting, so it equally favors both descriptive and active roleplaying.


It's not that I don't like the spotlight. It's that I don't like feeling like I'm competing with the other players in what is supposed to be a cooperative game.
It's not a competition as the guidance is for everyone to receive inspiration roughly once per session. It's also a reward that flows freely among players.


I'll respond with my approach. I play for immersion (yeah that word). I like to forget I am playing and become the character. Using mechanics for things I personally cannot do doesn't hurt that, as it is me rolling dice to simulate an action in fiction. But when I am inside my character, mechanics that influence decision or push for certain actions completely pulls me out, as I am not thinking as the character, but as a player on how to maximize the mechanics.

Roleplaying isn't "it's own reward" for me - it's the entire reason I am in the hobby- so mechanical input on how I play is, in fact, an impediment to why I play.
If you've written down "I've read every book in Candlekeep" under personality trait, inspired by your high Intelligence score, what's so immersion-breaking about being rewarded anytime your character actively involves themselves in anything related to education, memory or research? You're going to do it anyway by virtue of your immersion, so what's the actual complaint?

The story has become more real and tangible by way of your character's action in the narrative, and now there's a d20 in play that you can use to thank another player for bringing more of that energy, or that you can use to help ensure that an action you'd like to contribute plays out the way you envisioned it would.

Inspiration helps us tell the stories we're inspired to tell, no?
 


Oofta

Legend
It's not that I don't like the spotlight. It's that I don't like feeling like I'm competing with the other players in what is supposed to be a cooperative game.
That's a good way of putting it, although I also know people who hate the spotlight.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I'm curious to know if you two feel the same way about advantage and disadvantage.
...or any other type of bonus or penalty...
The Dungeon Masters Guide instructs Dungeon Masters to "consider granting advantage when a player shows exceptional creativity or cunning in attempting or describing a task."

Is it abhorrent to reward creativity in this way? Does it taste like approval-cookie?
Depends entirely on the situation. Sometimes a creative solution might give a bonus, not specifically because it's creative but because in the in-game situation the proposed out-of-the-box solution gives better odds of success. Other times, a creative solution might worsen the odds and that too will be reflected, this time with a penalty (though sometimes these high-risk high-reward ideas can be hella cool when they do come off).

That DMG quote does taste a bit like metagame approval cookies, which right there is good reason to reject or ignore it.
 

Oofta

Legend
Ah, so you're also against any XP for fulfilling character goals and roleplaying XP awards. Roleplaying is it's own reward, there should never be any mechanical benefit for roleplaying at all.

Different strokes, I guess.
For me, the reason to have levels is to tell different types of stories. So, no, I don't view XP as a reward and haven't used it for a couple of editions now.

But as you said, different strokes and all.
 

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