D&D 5E Why Don't We Simplify 5e?

[DEFCON 1]

Name a "simpler" RPG. There will be some people who will be playing it. If simpler matters to you... join them in playing that game.

But if you choose D&D, it's because you wish to play D&D... not because you have some mythical level of simplicity/complexity you are aiming for and are selecting a game that equals it. No one comes into the RPG hobby with complexity being their defining target and then just happens to settle upon D&D as the answer to their question after reviewing a dozen different games. Rather, they come to D&D first... and then after the fact comes to the conclusion they want something simpler or something more complex and then moves on to a different system.

 

[Ancalagon]

I'm going to be a bit of a crank here and say that people who think 5e is simple are wrong AND people who think that 5e is a very complex game are wrong too.

Compared to Pathfinder or some non D&D games like Hero 5e, 5e is fairly simple and streamlined.

Compared to actual simple games like Troika!, 5e is complex.

I can only conclude that to better evaluate the complexity of 5e, one must look at many other systems to get a better feel for it.

 

[TwoSix]

3 core books only. No feats. No multi-classing. 4 basic classes only (fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric). No sub-class with spells for non-casters. Done.

If you want even simpler, chuck cleric and wizard also.

Or just use the 3 sidekick classes.

 

[Marc_C]

Name a "simpler" RPG. There will be some people who will be playing it. If simpler matters to you... join them in playing that game.

But if you choose D&D, it's because you wish to play D&D... not because you have some mythical level of simplicity/complexity you are aiming for and are selecting a game that equals it. No one comes into the RPG hobby with complexity being their defining target and then just happens to settle upon D&D as the answer to their question after reviewing a dozen different games. Rather, they come to D&D first... and then after the fact comes to the conclusion they want something simpler or something more complex and then moves on to a different system.

Or write house rules to adapt D&D to their liking.

 

[Malmuria]

I am amazed when I see regular discussion that 5th edition D&D is too complicated. I'm not saying anyone is wrong - it just blows my mind that the simplest version of D&D since 2E, at least, is still viewed as "complex". It's a good example of just how much of a difference different experiences and frames can make.

A lot of this can be aided by a good, enthusiastic DM, regardless of the game. If you don't know one you may have to become one - just jump in and do it and accept that you won't always get it right. Basic rules only, PHB only are both solid suggestions.

Also 5th is popular but maybe it's not the answer for your group. Something like Labyrinth Lord is still very much D&D and involves a lot less character choice and fiddly bits in play and there is no lack of adventure material for it. There are a lot of other rules-light games out there that might hit the sweet spot you are looking for.

The complexity of 5e hits home when I have to explain aspects of the system to newer players. A lot of players just are not really interested in learning too many rules, including even knowing how their character's abilities work. The result is that the more experienced players or dm has to constantly explain things or look things up for players (spell descriptions are a prime culprit here).

 

[Horwath]

I would always hand a new player a pregenerated character, rather than expect them to grapple with character creation - the most complex part of the game - before even playing.

I don't expect or require new players to know any rules before play.

I'm quite for the opposite.

Character creation is a great way to introduce basics of D&D.
I would only hand out pre-gen if new player "crashed" the session unexpected or really didn't had the time to make own character. Or of someone dies mid session and you don't want them to leave or be utterly bored for the rest of the session.

Handing pre-gen instead of going through character creation with new player, more or less says that you think that new player is too dumb to comprehend several pages of a book. I would rather spend 2hrs with new player than handing them my own idea what they should play.

I might suggest a class with simple mechanics, like champion fighter or scout rogue, but that is about it.

 

[Malmuria]

"O5R":

Into the Unknown
5 Torches Deep
5e Hardcore Mode

 

[Aldarc]

Name a "simpler" RPG. There will be some people who will be playing it. If simpler matters to you... join them in playing that game.

But if you choose D&D, it's because you wish to play D&D... not because you have some mythical level of simplicity/complexity you are aiming for and are selecting a game that equals it. No one comes into the RPG hobby with complexity being their defining target and then just happens to settle upon D&D as the answer to their question after reviewing a dozen different games. Rather, they come to D&D first... and then after the fact comes to the conclusion they want something simpler or something more complex and then moves on to a different system.

IME, it may simply be because it's the game that your friends are playing and you want to play with them too rather than any actual choice regarding D&D or your game preferences.

"O5R":

Into the Unknown
5 Torches Deep
5e Hardcore Mode

There is also Index Card RPG.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Or write house rules to adapt D&D to their liking.

Yeah, but who actually does that? That's us doing WotC work for them! We're not paying them all this money for us to then re-do their work!

Wait, what?

[shakes head]

Sorry... don't know what came over me. Channeled one of the other EN World posters for a moment there...

 

[DEFCON 1]

IME, it may simply be because it's the game that your friends are playing and you want to play with them too rather than any actual choice regarding D&D or your game preferences.

If you are playing D&D because your friends are... then it doesn't matter how simple or complex the game is. You're choosing to play the game for reasons other than its complexity.