D&D 4E Anyone playing 4e at the moment?

[dave2008]

Characters with severely mundane attribute levels... my 4e swordmage attacking every enemy on the battlefield sorry I disagree and think you are full of it. Martial types in 5e feel incredibly like the athlete at the local gym. Squat for advancement of skills? sorry seems incredibly incredibly like a revenge of the nerds edition.

If only casters getting to be epic is your idea of epic we have nothing at all in common.

I never play casters and we only have 1 in our group. I just have a different idea of epic and that is OK. I am not trying to say your viewpoint isn't valid. It is just not my viewpoint.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

My problem with 4e epic is that well...it wasn't epic. It was just the same game. In fact, they didn't give you epic levels they just stretch 20 levels (for PCs and Monsters) out to 30 levels.

Now I don't think 5e gives you a complete system, but to me it feels more epic to me.

Now TO ME, 4e epic felt 'gonzo' and really epic. I mean, I think you have to play it that way. You COULD (and IMHO poorly) play it as just bigger numbers paragon is just bigger numbers heroic, but that kind of misses the point of it. I think 4e relies on the players to DO gonzo. The GM does have to not fight it either, but it really is in there. I mean just read the description of the Thief of Legend ED! Or even Demigod, you ARE A DEMIGOD!!!! If you RP that like you mean it, the sky is the limit. The great part being, the numbers actually work, which never happened in any edition before 4th, AT ALL at those kind of levels. I think 5th is better than 3.x here, but fall a bit short of 4th.

 

[dave2008]

@Garthanos , let me clarify a little bit. When I say I want epic to be different, I mean it terms of how the game is played. In 4e lvl 21-30 mostly plays just like lvl 1-20. You still have levels, you still have powers, you still do x(w)damage, etc. What I want in epic is a shift in how the game is played. That is what I like about the 5e epic boons system, it is different. No more levels, you just take a boon or feat or an ASI every 30,000 XP. Now, what is in the DMG is very bare bones and would love for it to be more complete. What I am saying is I like the concept of doing things differently. I am not interested in attacking everyone on the battlefield.

 

[dave2008]

Now TO ME, 4e epic felt 'gonzo' and really epic. I mean, I think you have to play it that way. You COULD (and IMHO poorly) play it as just bigger numbers paragon is just bigger numbers heroic, but that kind of misses the point of it. I think 4e relies on the players to DO gonzo. The GM does have to not fight it either, but it really is in there. I mean just read the description of the Thief of Legend ED! Or even Demigod, you ARE A DEMIGOD!!!! If you RP that like you mean it, the sky is the limit. The great part being, the numbers actually work, which never happened in any edition before 4th, AT ALL at those kind of levels. I think 5th is better than 3.x here, but fall a bit short of 4th.

You still gain levels and all that. That alone kills the epic feel for me. I also don't feel epic = gonzo. But I understand that is what some people want.

I do want to be clear hear. I have 2 different types of epic play in mind.

Epic: Motals that can do more.

Immortal: gonzo powerful

I like my immortal games to be gonzo powerful, not my mortal epic games

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My problem with 4e epic is that well...it wasn't epic. It was just the same game. In fact, they didn't give you epic levels they just stretch 20 levels (for PCs and Monsters) out to 30 levels.

Now I don't think 5e gives you a complete system, but to me it feels more epic to me.

That's...really hard for me to square with both my own experience and....just what 5e actually does. Like, how does 5e not just stretch the same mechanics that happened for 10 levels out to 20 levels (or whatever else)? 5e is almost worse than 4e for having the "massive bags of HP" problem, because of so-called "Bounded Accuracy" (which, as I've said many times, is neither actually about boundedness nor about accuracy, but rather about replacing AC-vs-accuracy progress with HP-vs-damage progress).

I'd also be very curious what epic things you see 5e non-casters doing? Because "taking two actions" or "rerolling a save" a couple of times a day, or "turning one bad roll into a good roll" don't exactly strike me as "epic." (I can kinda-sorta-vaguely-ish see the "no one can get attack advantage against me" thing as epic, but it's very much on the ultra-low end.) As opposed to, y'know, literally stealing the color of a maiden's eyes or walking your way out of death. Which are things non-caster epic 4e characters can do.

 

[Garthanos]

I never play casters and we only have 1 in our group. I just have a different idea of epic and that is OK. I am not trying to say your viewpoint isn't valid. It is just not my viewpoint.

We disagree vastly the 4e fighter in mid heroic tier is more awesome in so many ways than the 5e one at twice the level. Mine can pulls a standing leap of 30 feet once per encounter by digging deep, he can mow through hoards of minions he is already going into superhuman levels of strength (my example of the Long Tooth Shifter is already strength 21 and the Dragon Born who has less diverse stats over has 23 ... yeh 5e is exactly not epic/legendary/mythic by my definitions.

 

[Garthanos]

Immortal: gonzo powerful

Like 5e mages have right ... saving the entire team from falling with feature fall is pretty badass low level example

 

[dave2008]

We disagree vastly the 4e fighter in mid heroic tier is more awesome in so many ways than the 5e one at twice the level. Mine can pulls a standing leap of 30 feet once per encounter by digging deep, he can mow through hoards of minions he is already going into superhuman levels of strength (my example of the Long Tooth Shifter is already strength 21 and the Dragon Born who has less diverse stats over has 23 ... yeh 5e is exactly not epic/legendary/mythic by my definitions.

Yes, none of that is what I am talking about. I don't consider those things awesome or epic, it is just different tastes and that is OK.

Listen, I had a great time playing 4e and was a 4e champion (that was were I started my Epic Updates even). However, I have moved on to 5e because I enjoy it more. And that is OK.

 

[dave2008]

Like 5e mages have right ... saving the entire team from falling with feature fall is pretty badass low level example

No, like punching for 80d6 damage 2/round, every round, or being able to run at mach 3.

 

[Garthanos]

@Garthanos , let me clarify a little bit. When I say I want epic to be different, I mean it terms of how the game is played. In 4e lvl 21-30 mostly plays just like lvl 1-20. You still have levels, you still have powers, you still do x(w)damage, etc. What I want in epic is a shift in how the game is played. That is what I like about the 5e epic boons system, it is different. No more levels, you just take a boon or feat or an ASI every 30,000 XP. Now, what is in the DMG is very bare bones and would love for it to be more complete. What I am saying is I like the concept of doing things differently.

poor implementation and basically a non-concept except being not the same.

I am not interested in attacking everyone on the battlefield.

I am to me that one man army is a classic concept. I want parrying a barrage of arrows and protecting a whole group of civilians too.