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D&D 4E Anyone playing 4e at the moment?

Aldarc

Legend
Me too high 5
I can't recall a terribly negative conversation with him, so I'm not sure how I earned his ire. Oh well. Everyone has their reasons, and I'll respect his.

I largely view 4e as an accidentally brilliant game. We know that it was created by a deeply divided design team. It's no wonder parts of the team did not get it because it wasn't the sort of game they wanted to design.
There was huge amounts of intent in the original design expressed by original team leadership, I do not think accidental is the right word exactly.
The "accident" aspect may be a result of the rushed development.
 

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hmmm not sure... I am kind of a build my own world kind of guy but I think bits and pieces of what you are talking about are scattered all over

it is more that people have had no idea about it's setting and idea and people might be able to build better ideas from it if it was in one place and videos do much better than text.
Well, there is a google doc someone put together that details the lore of Nentir Vale from the very beginning of creation to “present” Nentir Vale, cobbled together from various tidbits of lore spread throughout many of the 4e books. It what I have been using as reference for my own world’s history.

History of the Nentir Vale
also thank you for more text, I had my above idea after the dnd meme sub reddite for its latest dumb debate was that 4e fighter was better it is a true statement thus a debate is madness.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
it is more that people have had no idea about it's setting and idea and people might be able to build better ideas from it if it was in one place and videos do much better than text.
They certainly can I love some of the recent game play videos I have watched. But I havent seen any on 4e world lore
also thank you for more text, I had my above idea after the dnd meme sub reddite for its latest dumb debate was that 4e fighter was better it is a true statement thus a debate is madness.
Better at what than what? I mean keeping my interest? having tactical options? being a defender and locking down enemies and keeping them from harming your friends? Eating minions for lunch? All of those comes to my mind.
 

I didn't have a problem with the idea.

My comment was more that it was an example of an option being released that was immediately used in a way which had appeared to have never been considered before it rolled out.

...which happens sometimes. It's not uncommon for an audience to see something differently. But that seemed to be the case a lot with 4E.

I've often been curious what was happening at WotC which produced a drastically different view of the game than how the players around me viewed the game.
The 2 point differential between AC and NADS had huge and widespread repercussions throughout the design of 4e. Because it broke the symmetry of things (albeit its not a horrible breakage, but its still broke) there were then attempts to keep inappropriate things from 'mixing together', and that just created uglier problems when some things started out already AS mixes (IE warlock implements).

I neatly solved all this in my game by A) getting rid of AC entirely, and B) generalizing proficiency so all these things are 'tools' and simply 'having proficiency in a tool which your power includes as a keyword' (directly or indirectly) is worth a +5 bonus. It just works. I guess you could argue with the +5, maybe it should be +2 or +3, whatever. The point is all of this rules mess was instantaneously banished with the simplest of fixes. Whomever WROTE the 4e rules, as in technically designed them, was a fairly incompetent wargame rules designer (and I say this as someone who has played some of the most complex wargames in existence and not had any problems, I've also written a few wargames that work quite well).
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Thief of Legends was mentioned. And stealing the intangible and subsequently the impossible isn't even a capstone ability.
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
There could be other progressions too. Maybe another maneuver lets you toss people, 3 meters, 100 meters, 10 kilometers, and the final capstone is 'they never come down'.
Martial Practice : I used a throw an object in the air (may be at lower levels rebounding off scenery tree foliage and buildings and eventually falling back as long as you are in the area as a way for a warrior/strength athletics archetype to sequester things (hide them in an unfindable way temporarily) like dex character might do. This at Mythic that becomes you throw it into the sky gauging where you will be with a touch of prophetic foresight from that mysterious heritage so when you want it back .... boop it drops out of the heavens where you tossed it.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
(5E claims that magic items are rare/optional, but I'm not sure that I always believe that.)
the analysis I have seen is that monsters get better faster (just like +1 to+3) if you do not give people magic items during those last tiers ie they did assume it but figure since things are a bit more obfuscated and most people do not play endgame anyway marketing speak about not needing magic items rules the day.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
@AbdulAlhazred There is an item that might be an analog to a save ends version of banishment in 4e btw, but not seeing anything more. The 4e case does not require concentration like I think the 5e does. (or whatever the 4e analog spending a minor/mov/standard action to maintain)
 
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They certainly can I love some of the recent game play videos I have watched. But I havent seen any on 4e world lore

Better at what than what? I mean keeping my interest? having tactical options? being a defender and locking down enemies and keeping them from harming your friends? Eating minions for lunch? All of those comes to my mind.
more stuff to do is honestly the answer they came up with, not being a defender just being more than I hit stuff.
 





dave2008

Legend
They certainly can I love some of the recent game play videos I have watched. But I havent seen any on 4e world lore

Better at what than what? I mean keeping my interest? having tactical options? being a defender and locking down enemies and keeping them from harming your friends? Eating minions for lunch? All of those comes to my mind.
My biggest issue with the original 4e fighter is that it wasn't a better "striker" (my issue with 5e one too). I don't a "tank" and no one at my table wants to play a tank. My 4e fighters were generally unhappy that the ranger did more damage.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
My biggest issue with the original 4e fighter is that it wasn't a better "striker" (my issue with 5e one too). I don't a "tank" and no one at my table wants to play a tank. My 4e fighters were generally unhappy that the ranger did more damage.
I can see that. I guess as a DM you had the option to turn the Fighter into a damage dealer - just have NPCs constantly ignore his mark, and get punished for it. But it kinda asks the DM to play suboptimally just to make a player happy. I guess I wouldn't be good at that. :)

--
I am not actively playing D&D 4, but I used the D&D 4 ruleset as basis for a homebrew Star Wars system. And I kinda want to make a homebrew Arcane Unearthed game with D&D 4 like classes. Bu tI admit, some parts of the rules I am probably going to leave behind.
My gaming group plays exclusively online, and we have about 2.5 hours for a game. And so endless dungeon-clearing fights are not really our thing. We still want tactical fights, but the fights are focused and a "dungeon" might be only a single fight or two, and then there will be travel and other stuff happening so there will likely be an extended rest. So overall, I think I want to get rid of the Encounter/Daily distinction and even Healing Surges and balance everything around a single encounter. Maybe keep some kind of Injury/Stress system perhaps for some long-term effects, more for "immersion" then because it is important to balance.
---
Oh, as I am thinking about it. We actually still kinda have a D&D 4 game. We have a kind of "emergency campaign" that we play when one of us can't make it. It's basically a giant dungeon crawl, but we give out individual XP for achievements like "the most damage per turn this session" or "most targets hits" or "most healing done", a kind of friendly competition game.
We reactivated the old Offline Builder for that.
 

My biggest issue with the original 4e fighter is that it wasn't a better "striker" (my issue with 5e one too). I don't a "tank" and no one at my table wants to play a tank. My 4e fighters were generally unhappy that the ranger did more damage.
it needs to be both damage dealer and the guy stoping the squishes getting stabbed, plus getting people to dual you is cinematic and thus cool.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
it needs to be both damage dealer and the guy stoping the squishes getting stabbed, plus getting people to dual you is cinematic and thus cool.
The optimization crowd I hang out with on Discord will often say things like Fighters in 4e actually are some very good strikers with the caveat that it takes building towards that, where as if you want an easy striker you build the ranger, but yes a dm could have monsters frequently ignore the mark it does not have to be constantly to up the anti quite a bit.

I am the flexible flavor guy and think a ranger, or actually the entire martial power source are "fighters" I built Zena who is in story Warrior Princess. (sounds like Warlord with Gender specifics) as that very acrobatic ranger who used the Chakram as her offhand weapon (throwing build). Warlords are called "off defenders".

How does one build Aragorn => I build a Warlord and give him nature skill one way or another and high enough intelligence that hide is the perfect armor but so is that other shiny metal stuff. Another might hybrid Ranger with Fighter or Warlord. That Distracting the enemy from attacking the hobbits is very useful for making him feel like the character in the books.... less so being able to kill something big, that was Legolas trick also not as much Gimli's.

When I build a Samurai I might use a Hide wearing ranger with Two Sword aka Miyamoto Musashi or a fighter using scale or a monk with cloth armor ie there is no one right way. The ranger or Warlord also enables the archery which is a historical difference between a Knight and a Samurai. Mulan being a Warlord build. Knights are legendarily not archers.

Knights very much the fighter in some ways, yet nature skill also was very much described as very important to knights including hunting, animal handling (falconry,dogs,horses) and horsemanship the purview of the noble (peasants were not allowed to hunt... see robinhood). And speaking of noblemen, A rogue can be a Nobleman with a rapier ... not a cat burglar.

That said I kind of like the structure of the 5e fighter. (credit where due it actually feels like a mashup between the 2e warrior lord/fighter with a really large helping of the way Book of 9 swords worked). It lacks the stylishness of the Bo9S and the poetry of any of the 4e classes with boring maneuvers which are all 3rd level appropriate with zero hint of the 4e fighters ability to mow down minions... and so on very unsatisfactory to me.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I can see that. I guess as a DM you had the option to turn the Fighter into a damage dealer - just have NPCs constantly ignore his mark, and get punished for it. But it kinda asks the DM to play suboptimally just to make a player happy. I guess I wouldn't be good at that. :)
I think its boring to always honor the mark. I do not think one has constantly ignore it you might even use when they get bloodied it will highlight very nicely or letting some enemies realize quickly they arent hurting this guy (do they know he can respond to their shift attempt? well the DM does he could very well assume they do not)... and those ones over there are squishy looking is not 100 percent not optimal in character at least.
 
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