I already said in my opinion it is missing out, much like removing a tool both a teaching tool as you acknowledge and one useful particularly when part of it is presented player side in the narrative to create a build up of suspense. And as a formalized tool this is pretty incredibly open ended with more incommon with many of games which heck do not even have a distinct combat system from their skill system.
I know, we've played tons of these, but we always come back to D&D for its specific ambiance.
To be honest D&D is in most things incredibly heavy mechanically and SC are probably the least so of any of the rules elements this game presents.
3e and 4e were heavily mechanistic, but 5e is not, you should try PF and PF2...
Any arena where skills are used are already using a lower level formal structure. We are talking about an extension of that which fairly simply shows how individual skill use impacts a larger picture and tracks that which I feel is no less appropriate to social arenas. I feel this enables skills to have a higher potency by showing how they impact a whole process when I have seen unsophisticated oops you go nowhere as the the default for very many of D&D DMs over the years in particular newbies but some never get out of that the system does not encourage them to.
I have honestly no idea whether one approach is more frequent than another, so I can't comment, the only thing I can say is that there are skills in all systems now, and if the DM incites the players to use them, they will, if he does not, they may or may not, but I don't think that the Skill Challenge encourages things specifically unless you lay it out plainly, in which case I really don't like it, I prefer my players to game th e world rather than the system.
Are you ignoring the rituals and the option and example where a rituals specific effects already fairly open ended were altered by use of arcana skill (I think the example might have also been in one of the DMGs)
Rituals are just rituals and fairly standard now, but I'm talking about spells used for intrigue or out of combat, in 4e, it's always grids and squares and encounter formalism.
There might be options to do without that, but then what's the point of the formalism ?
I feel this is only because you chose to restrict that. For instance as DM inspired by the DMG2 allowing one to exert and spend a healing surge to gain an auto success, there are at will ice based attacks that a DM such as I might allow one to use to freeze a surface and walk across a lake (it required expending a healing surge since it is unusual amounts of longer term effort than the power normally involved) .
You can argue that the game did not encourage that enough if you like but I feel saying there can be no clever use of powers or rituals is just wrong.
It's not for lack of trying, but with all the formalism in the game, our DMs at the time played it formally, and it never happened in our campaigns.
you seem to be ignoring rituals but you bring it up right here where you actually considering 4e rituals locked down?? And in a few short years there are hundreds more of them in 4e than in the recent game. I sorely miss real rituals with an actual strategic cost.
I agree that the new rituals are not as complete as 4e ones, but on the reverse, it's because the spells and powers of 5e are much more open-ended and useful out of combat, so it more than balances itself out with our way of playing.
yes extraordinary skills where are those in 5e exactly? they certainly never happened in the earliest games and with that shabby few percentiles more than your low level character got the paltry advancement in skill chances inhibits seeing them as extraordinary ... never mind the wizard can now teleport the lot of us mid battle to safety instantly Hurray for brilliant use of magic to trivialize a problem an effect that will never happen with skill use.
Remember that was all the non casters ever got.
No, they also got tons of mafic items that at least partially compensated, that was the fun of the game.
Not sure how exactly character abilities in those earlier games scaled to enable that? oops your still incredibly meh dexterity and no skill advancement either "you fall off" seems as likely a result maybe you wont die with super sized hps.
right only magic is being complained about I get your bias and you are ignoring rituals that rarely ever mentions grids.
Whoa, please don't go in terms of bias and such, we are just discussing preferences, OK ?
Rituals don't mention grids, but they are also fairly useless in intrigue and free form gaming, and don't compensate for the use of spells and powers in non-combat situation, that's all.
After that, to each their own and their style of gaming. It's not as if we did not try it, we did, it was not bad, but it did not suit our style of gaming, that's all.
yup most people misuse tactical to mean grid based
Players having each available longer term resources in 4e from action points to dailies and wealth which scales to level to fuel things from rituals to healing surges which can be directly applied or fuel martial practices (which needed adjusted to be worth their cost) or hint enhance skills/powers in a skill challenge.
And this fits exactly with the 4e adventuring paradigm.
Which does not fit our conception of the game, because we don't approach it in a technical manner at all. But again, to each his own.
