D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Chaosmancer]

The DMG death domain is an optional rule.

What about the PHB Death Domain? Is it an optional rule too?

Not two mistakes, three in three different books all on the same topic. Highly unlikely. He also per RAW wasn't born a demigod, he became one, which defies the DMG classifications. Perhaps there are multiple classifications of demigod. One thing is clear, though. He's not anything other than a demigod, despite his presence as an optional rule in the death domain and being on Appendix B as a possible god(per RAW the DM decides who on that list is worshipped).

He's a demigod unless the DM opts to make him a full god. Any by the way, an Acolyte should consider domains when picking a god, even though he doesn't cast spells. The presence of domains in Appendix B is not proof that the god grants spells.

"If you're playing a cleric or a character with the Acolyte background, decide which god your deity serves or served, and consider the deity's suggested domains when selecting your character's domain." PHB page 293

Hey Max, when you bold things, maybe you should bold the RIGHT things.

"If you're playing a cleric or a character with the Acolyte background, decide which god your deity serves or served, and consider the deity's suggested domains when selecting your character's domain."

It is... really obvious that an Acolyte doesn't have a domain. So, you have two ideas here. Acolytes and the gods they worship and clerics and the gods they worship and the domains they choose.

Additionally, you are making a bit of a small error in your "three mistakes" claim. Your third is from Mordenkainen's and did you actually forget the conceit of Mordenkainen's?

"A companion to the Monster Manual and Volo’s Guide to Monsters, this book contains the musings of the renowned wizard Mordenkainen from the world of Greyhawk." pg 4

Mordenkainen is an unreliable narrator, and he could easily be WRONG about Iuz "becoming" a demigod. He could have easily been born that way. After all, it isn't like Mordenkainen met him before he was trained by his mother and was able to measure him and see that he wasn't a demigod.


So, he is referred to as a god in both the PHB and DMG. He grants spells and answers prayers like a god. And the only places he is referred to as a demigod are the writings of one of his enemies, and a summary of the setting which might have had a typo.

 

[Voadam]

I quoted it.

And this is in Mordenkainen's on page 32.

"Cambions spawned by demon lords sometimes manifest different abilities from a typical cambion. Graz'zt is notable among demon lords for the many cambions he has spawned across the multiverse. Most famous among them is Iuz, who combined his father's abyssal heritage and his mother's peerless arcane tutelage to become a demigod."

Says up there Grazz'zt is a demon lord, and that Iuz became a demigod.

Not one I own so I am not as familiar with its material. Thanks for the quote.

 

[Maxperson]

Not one I own so I am not as familiar with its material. Thanks for the quote.

No problem. It seems pretty clear that if you can become a demigod, that not all demigods are the kind who are born of a god and mortal. Perhaps these other kinds can grant spells. Perhaps Iuz can't grant them and someone is doing it for some reason. Who knows.

 

[Mirtek]

A demigod who ascends is still the child of a god and a mortal and so fits the 5e DMG definition of a demigod. A demigod who ascends is now a full god who has domains and grants cleric spells and not a quasi-deity who does not grant cleric spells.

Two different ways to read the same text about demigods as being mixed divine mortal heritage beings who are not gods but can ascend and be gods.

So a human who becomes a god is still a human?

 

[Mirtek]

Occam's Razor. For you to be correct relies upon professional designers making not one, but two mistakes. For me to be correct requires what it says in print. The simplest explanation is that Iuz is a demigod.

Edit: Not two mistakes, but now three mistakes in three separate books.

Actually for you to be correct requires a misstake in the appendix

 

[Mirtek]

This sounds about right. He's called a demigod, probably because his home plane is the Prime, but he's not actually a demigod in terms of power.

Sekolah has been relocated to the prime in 5e and is still called a lesser god

 

[Chaosmancer]

So a human who becomes a god is still a human?

Interesting point, counter-point. If we had (which to my knowledge has never happened) an elf that ascended to be a god... we would refer to them as an Elven God, correct? And in their story we would like refer to them as "The Elf [X] who ascended to godhood." But we need the "ascent to godhood" not because they are a god now and not an elf, but because they are powerful in ways that calling them an elf wouldn't convey. Demigods, unless you are reading very very closely, don't have that same issue. They are immensely powerful and so you have far less confusion until you get into situations like this one.

 

[Voadam]

So a human who becomes a god is still a human?

Good question. I would tend to think of human ascension as more of a change and not just an addition even though I would think of them as a human god. Greek Myth had a bunch. Is Ariadne still a human after Dionysus marries her and she becomes immortal? It seems tough to make a general call to extend to demigods and other types of beings from that though. I think we would say that the Demon Lord Juiblex in 2e Monster Mythology was a non-deity demon lord before he was worshiped by the aboleth cult and became a god, but we would still call him a demon lord after that ascension. I would think nothing of referring to Nike the Greek Goddess of Victory as the Titan Nike, or to Lolth as either the Goddess Lolth or the Demon Lord Lolth.

For what its worth Dionysus and Heracles both make it on Wikipedia's list of Demigods.

 

[Maxperson]

Actually for you to be correct requires a misstake in the appendix

No it doesn't. A quasi-deity is still a god(per DMG) AND has domains for the non-spellcasting acolytes(per Appendix B). No mistakes required. The only issue is that they designed the game in such a way as to cause confusion, but that's poor design, not a mistake like calling Iuz a demigod in two different books would be if he's really a lesser god.

 

[Voadam]

No it doesn't. A quasi-deity is still a god(per DMG) AND has domains for the non-spellcasting acolytes(per Appendix B). No mistakes required. The only issue is that they designed the game in such a way as to cause confusion, but that's poor design, not a mistake like calling Iuz a demigod in two different books would be if he's really a lesser god.

Are you saying DMG demigod quasi-deities are gods? It describes them as divine origin beings who in theory are able to ascend to godhood if they amass enough worshipers.

"Quasi-deities have a divine origin, but they don't hear or answer prayers, grant spells to clerics, or control aspects of mortal life. They are still immensely powerful beings, and in theory they could ascend to godhood if they amassed enough worshipers. Quasi-deities fall into three subcategories: demigods, titans, and vestiges."

I would not normally think of something that can ascend to godhood as already being a god.

The whole sidebar is talking about divine beings, which seems to be both gods and beings that are less than gods who can become gods.