D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Lyxen]

If everything the DM rules or changes is RAW, then RAW ceases to have any meaning.

Which is good in general, because RAW should not matter in a game, but in this case it is even more pointless, as the basis for the discussion is not even rules, it's just a sidebar that tells how divinities are often arrayed in a given world. There is nothing prescriptive there, and nothing that can be construed as rules affecting play, just guidelines about world design. Especially since published words from previous editions have their own history and no reason whatsoever to abide by new guidelines.

 

[Helldritch]

Which is good in general, because RAW should not matter in a game, but in this case it is even more pointless, as the basis for the discussion is not even rules, it's just a sidebar that tells how divinities are often arrayed in a given world. There is nothing prescriptive there, and nothing that can be construed as rules affecting play, just guidelines about world design. Especially since published words from previous editions have their own history and no reason whatsoever to abide by new guidelines.

Which is why I simply dropped my answer (more of an essay) in reply to devils as gods. In 5ed anything can go and this thread is exactly for 5ed. Polluting it with old editions ways of doing (or not doing) things was pointless. That and the fact I really work a lot these days.

 

[Helldritch]

And this brings me back to the acolyte background. The domain consideration of the chosen deity is intriguing...

Yes I know that the intent is not to give non caster access to a domain. That much is obvious. But what about a half caster? Would it be so unbalanced? And what about a full caster?

In fiction, we often see that the "priest" is also a wizard but a devout one. We often see that in Lankhmar and in quite a few fantasy novels. The white wizards of Lankhmar ate healers and arcane casters. The mix is actually quite appealing.

I already allow eldritch knight to chose two schools instead of keeping the base ones. Would allowing an eldritch knight a domain be so unbalanced? A bit more spells, yes but the amount they cast is not that big of a deal...

The more I think of it, the more I think that Maxperson inadvertently put a finger on something that could change how we play eldritch knights and even Arcane tricksters... I can imagine an Arcane Tricksters with access to a domain spells as he is trained by clerics to by their infiltrator into rival churches. Casting a few clerical spells might help the infiltrator into looking more the part than normally possible...

A sorcerer, a wizard and even a warlock would be able to get a benefits and some of their subclasses can already access clerical spells... The acolyte background would only reinforce their closeness to their religious affinities.

Paladins and druids would also be great winners and could it enable a cleric to choose a second domain of his deity? These clerics would be very in touch with all aspects of their deity. Some sort of "super" clerics?

This is a lot to consider but it might be quite fun to try.

 

[Faolyn]

According to the PHB, this is wrong. You won't be able to cast spells, but even a non-spellcasting acolyte needs to consider domain.

Only in the sense of deciding what aspect of your god you worship, if applicable. If a god grants the Light and War domains, you might emphasize one over the other--or both. But that's only actually necessary to decide if you're a cleric (for spellcasting purposes) or if the DM has decided that those aspects represent different sects in the religion.

 

[Maxperson]

Only in the sense of deciding what aspect of your god you worship, if applicable. If a god grants the Light and War domains, you might emphasize one over the other--or both. But that's only actually necessary to decide if you're a cleric (for spellcasting purposes) or if the DM has decided that those aspects represent different sects in the religion.

Yep. I get it and said as much upthread.

 

[Chaosmancer]

According to the PHB, this is wrong. You won't be able to cast spells, but even a non-spellcasting acolyte needs to consider domain.

No, they don't. You are just twisting a sentence whose structure was less sound and rigorous than it should have been, and then demanding that we bow to a falsehood because you twisted what was said.

 

[Maxperson]

No, they don't. You are just twisting a sentence whose structure was less sound and rigorous than it should have been, and then demanding that we bow to a falsehood because you twisted what was said.

No. You're the only one twisting it. I'm reading it straight as it is written. You have to twist it into your assumed structure.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And this brings me back to the acolyte background. The domain consideration of the chosen deity is intriguing...

Yes I know that the intent is not to give non caster access to a domain. That much is obvious. But what about a half caster? Would it be so unbalanced? And what about a full caster?

In fiction, we often see that the "priest" is also a wizard but a devout one. We often see that in Lankhmar and in quite a few fantasy novels. The white wizards of Lankhmar ate healers and arcane casters. The mix is actually quite appealing.

I already allow eldritch knight to chose two schools instead of keeping the base ones. Would allowing an eldritch knight a domain be so unbalanced? A bit more spells, yes but the amount they cast is not that big of a deal...

The more I think of it, the more I think that Maxperson inadvertently put a finger on something that could change how we play eldritch knights and even Arcane tricksters... I can imagine an Arcane Tricksters with access to a domain spells as he is trained by clerics to by their infiltrator into rival churches. Casting a few clerical spells might help the infiltrator into looking more the part than normally possible...

A sorcerer, a wizard and even a warlock would be able to get a benefits and some of their subclasses can already access clerical spells... The acolyte background would only reinforce their closeness to their religious affinities.

Paladins and druids would also be great winners and could it enable a cleric to choose a second domain of his deity? These clerics would be very in touch with all aspects of their deity. Some sort of "super" clerics?

This is a lot to consider but it might be quite fun to try.

My immediate problem with this idea is that you would have to either make a new subclass, or maybe work in a sub-system for this. Because this makes it far more powerful to be an Eldritch Knight who takes Acolyte (domain) and gains access to domain spells than one who doesn't.

You could handle it like the Guild Spells from Ravnica, where if you are a spellcaster you can choose to learn those spells. That would probably be okay, but it could still get dicey having a background give your Arcane Trickster access to Bless and Cure Wounds while another background gives them... nothing much.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No. You're the only one twisting it. I'm reading it straight as it is written. You have to twist it into your assumed structure.

Except "Domain" is highly specific. It is only a cleric thing. Not even Paladins get Domains. There is no spot on your character sheet for "domain" and it isn't tied to different worship of a god. In fact, it specifically tells you in one of the sections that your domain doesn't even have to match the list on the gods, because some of them so general they apply to any god you want.

In fact, the discussion of choosing a domain to highlight an aspect of a god? That is in the cleric class, the one whose subclasses are DOMAINS. There is no other way to look at domains, their entire purpose is for the cleric class. Nothing else.

 

[Helldritch]

My immediate problem with this idea is that you would have to either make a new subclass, or maybe work in a sub-system for this. Because this makes it far more powerful to be an Eldritch Knight who takes Acolyte (domain) and gains access to domain spells than one who doesn't.

You could handle it like the Guild Spells from Ravnica, where if you are a spellcaster you can choose to learn those spells. That would probably be okay, but it could still get dicey having a background give your Arcane Trickster access to Bless and Cure Wounds while another background gives them... nothing much.

I fully agree. It would not work that well at many tables. But I do enforce the Gods' will and if a player does not work truly for his god, he's in for a lot of trouble. The ethos of the god a player choose for his character is really important and even paladins are still embedded with religious obligations in my games. Religious tenets are given for each religions with holy days and so forth. So yep, I could work with a bit of work but it could also spell the death of the cleric as a class... There are a lot to consider if someone wants to go that way.