D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

New free content from WotC - the latest 4-page Unearthed Arcana introduces six new races: astral elf, autognome, giff, hadozee, plasmoid, and thri-kreen.


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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!
 
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Chaosmancer

Legend
Anyone know the manga / anime Eat-Man? A plasmoid artificer might come close. Build something then absorb it. Store it until you need it, then gloop...I’ve got a machine gun.

I am not, but is definitely an intriguing concept.

Hmm, could go kind of wierd with an Alchemist Artificer (if you are okay playing one), or make mini-me's with an artillerist.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
It depends what you mean by "a very long time", but the idea that stars are like the Sun has only been around for about 350 years, and only generally accepted for about 200.

People didn't know about air until the 18th century, and so the idea that you might not be able to breathe in space came later than that.
Okay. So what? What does air in space have to do with there being stars? Hell, what does knowing that the sun is just a star have to do with knowing there are stars?

The medieval Arabic astronomers who named a huge chunk of the stars named before the 18th century knew that stars were objects separate from the Earth, that moved around outside the Earth, and weren’t like, holes in a dome above the Earth or whatever.

There is a story, I believe Chinese in origin, one of the oldest written stories, about someone traveling to the moon in a vehicle.

Space Opera does not require science. It requires space, stars, the ability to navigate by and to stars, etc. It doesn’t require not being able to breath in space.
Who is familiar with which tropes depends on what group of people you are talking about. People who like steampunk are familiar with steampunk tropes. "Aether" was only science for a relatively short period of time, as evidence mounted that Newton was wrong about light and Huygens was right. Everyone knows waves require a medium to propagate, right?
Completely irrelevant. What matters is that it’s an idea with traction amongst people who know anything about steampunk and things related to it.
The advantage of "Astral" was it was popularised by the 1960s counterculture, and was never science. Since it was never science, it is not subject to being disproved, and therefore can never replaced by something else.
Being disproven is irrelevant to any of this. It isn’t science fiction, it’s fantasy.

People didn’t bounce off Spelljammer because the phlogiston is old disproven science. They bounced off it, in part, because the phlogiston is a weird, unfamiliar, and fairly hokey, idea that has absolutely nothing to do with being able to leave a home world in a ship and navigate to a distant star and then physically travel there. They bounced off it because it insisted on using the basic ideas of D&D cosmology like the crystal spheres instead of letting worlds just be physical objects in a vast expanse.

Beinf able to breath in space or not doesn’t matter at all. It’s purely a choice to make based on aesthetic and what things you want to be possible without special equipment. In my game setting I chose to have a special gas that seems to collect around stars and other large gravity wells, and know one knows yet how it’s generated, that can be used to power magitech devices like “Aether ships”, and can be breathed by nearly all life forms because it’s magic gas. Because that made some fun stuff possible in the setting, and fit the aesthetic I wanted, of a galaxy somewhere between steampunk and Flash Gordon, with elements of Star Wars and Treasure Planet and Final Fantasy.

And it works because all of it is either familiar or easy to grok and use in play for most nerds and even a lot of people who aren’t especially nerdy, not because it avoids disproven science.
 

The medieval Arabic astronomers who named a huge chunk of the stars named before the 18th century knew that stars were objects separate from the Earth, that moved around outside the Earth, and weren’t like, holes in a dome above the Earth or whatever.
Holes in a dome (letting through the light of heaven) is what the vast majority of the population of the Earth believed - and quite reasonably so, given that there was no observational evidence to the contrary. Tycho Brahe attempted to observe proper motions of the stars in the 16th Century, but it wasn't until the invention of the telescope that it was possible to make sufficiently accurate observations to show that stars where not all the same distance away. It took the development of stellar spectroscopy in the 19th Century to show that stars where similar to the Sun, rather than planets, asteroids or something undiscovered.

Arabic astronomers named many stars, but they didn't know any more than anyone else.

When we are bought up with ideas from being small children, it seems like people have always known those things, and anyone who believed differently was silly, but this really isn't the case, and many of the ideas we take for granted are relatively new. The oldest person I know is 104. She was born 6 years after the discovery of the atomic nucleus. To my 5 year old grandson, smartphones have always existed.
There is a story, I believe Chinese in origin, one of the oldest written stories, about someone traveling to the moon in a vehicle.
Yes, it's considered by some to be the first science fiction story, but it doesn't reveal any knowledge that you can't learn by looking up in the sky. The Moon is many orders of magnitude closer than any other heavenly body, and therefore commensurately easier to make observations of. Hipparchus made reasonably accurate observations of it's motion, size and distance way back around 150 BC. You can use a method known as parallax to determine the distance to objects that are relatively close, but even with modern instrumentation most stars are too far away to use this method.
What matters is that it’s an idea with traction amongst people who know anything about steampunk and things related to it.
Nothing wrong with including a few Steampunk elements but, as with any other minority interests, leaning to heavily into it narrows the appeal of the product.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Holes in a dome (letting through the light of heaven) is what the vast majority of the population of the Earth believed - and quite reasonably so, given that there was no observational evidence to the contrary. Tycho Brahe attempted to observe proper motions of the stars in the 16th Century, but it wasn't until the invention of the telescope that it was possible to make sufficiently accurate observations to show that stars where not all the same distance away. It took the development of stellar spectroscopy in the 19th Century to show that stars where similar to the Sun, rather than planets, asteroids or something undiscovered.

Arabic astronomers named many stars, but they didn't know any more than anyone else.

I'm not sure what exactly you are responding to (the random mention of Arabic Astronomers hints this is a response, not just a random post) But I thin your claim is HIGHLY suspect. For example, we find this in the Wiki for Chinese Astronomy. "The Chinese often were fundamentally opposed to this as well, since the Chinese had long believed (from the ancient doctrine of Xuan Ye) that the celestial bodies floated in a void of infinite space." Xuan Ye doctrine seems to date back to 285. The Indian Astronomers also seemed to believe something similar since about 1030. And I can't say for certain, but I'm sure the Mayans who were ridiculous astronomers also had a view that did not follow the "holes in a dome" theory.

And even if we ignore the scientists and sages, we have to remember that the VAST MAJORITY of people believed in myths. Myths of all sorts mark the stars as beings in the sky. Chinese myths have them as celestial beings, Aztec myths have them as evil siblings of the sun, I'm pretty sure the idea of them being dead souls or angels was incredibly popular. So... I'd say at no point in human history did the VAST MAJORITY of people one Earth believe in that "holes in a dome" theory.

Nothing wrong with including a few Steampunk elements but, as with any other minority interests, leaning to heavily into it narrows the appeal of the product.

I don't disagree with this, but I have to say Steampunk is pretty "laid back" as far as genre elements go. It is really easy to build things out of copper or brass with pipes, or have a Victorian Europe sort of aesthetic to the culture Just a personal opinion, but if you are going to try and blend something, Steampunk blends well with a lot of other things.
 

I'm not sure what exactly you are responding to (the random mention of Arabic Astronomers hints this is a response, not just a random post) But I thin your claim is HIGHLY suspect. For example, we find this in the Wiki for Chinese Astronomy. "The Chinese often were fundamentally opposed to this as well, since the Chinese had long believed (from the ancient doctrine of Xuan Ye) that the celestial bodies floated in a void of infinite space." Xuan Ye doctrine seems to date back to 285. The Indian Astronomers also seemed to believe something similar since about 1030. And I can't say for certain, but I'm sure the Mayans who were ridiculous astronomers also had a view that did not follow the "holes in a dome" theory.
I'm really talking about science - i.e. an evidence based approach. You can have lots of different ideas, but without evidence "holes is a dome" is just as valid as anything else. Until you have some way to determine to determine the distance to the stars (which requires technology - i.e. telescope) "floating in an infinite void" is just as much a fantasy as the dome. Determining that stars are like the Sun also requires technology - diffraction grating.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Holes in a dome (letting through the light of heaven) is what the vast majority of the population of the Earth believed - and quite reasonably so, given that there was no observational evidence to the contrary. Tycho Brahe attempted to observe proper motions of the stars in the 16th Century, but it wasn't until the invention of the telescope that it was possible to make sufficiently accurate observations to show that stars where not all the same distance away. It took the development of stellar spectroscopy in the 19th Century to show that stars where similar to the Sun, rather than planets, asteroids or something undiscovered.

Arabic astronomers named many stars, but they didn't know any more than anyone else.

When we are bought up with ideas from being small children, it seems like people have always known those things, and anyone who believed differently was silly, but this really isn't the case, and many of the ideas we take for granted are relatively new. The oldest person I know is 104. She was born 6 years after the discovery of the atomic nucleus. To my 5 year old grandson, smartphones have always existed.

Yes, it's considered by some to be the first science fiction story, but it doesn't reveal any knowledge that you can't learn by looking up in the sky. The Moon is many orders of magnitude closer than any other heavenly body, and therefore commensurately easier to make observations of. Hipparchus made reasonably accurate observations of it's motion, size and distance way back around 150 BC. You can use a method known as parallax to determine the distance to objects that are relatively close, but even with modern instrumentation most stars are too far away to use this method.

Nothing wrong with including a few Steampunk elements but, as with any other minority interests, leaning to heavily into it narrows the appeal of the product.
I don’t know how else to say that none of this history of science lecturing is relevant to the discussion of why spelljammer isn’t a space opera and thus doesn’t do the main thing a lot of people want from it, leading to it being a hard sell for a lot of people.

like, it can be an interesting topic in itself, but this is the only time in my life I have ever seen or heard of anyone positing that anyone has ever cared on any level about the phlogiston being old bunk science.

People want D&D in space. That’s it. That’s the niche spelljammer could have filled and IMO fails completely to fill.
 

I don’t know how else to say that none of this history of science lecturing is relevant to the discussion of why spelljammer isn’t a space opera and thus doesn’t do the main thing a lot of people want from it, leading to it being a hard sell for a lot of people.
It's not, it's a discussion of why the original Spelljammer wasn't quite the space opera it could have been.

And it's interesting in it's own right.
like, it can be an interesting topic in itself, but this is the only time in my life I have ever seen or heard of anyone positing that anyone has ever cared on any level about the phlogiston being old bunk science.
I think the word originated in alchemy. But you are right, pretty much the only person who new that stuff was the person who wrote Spelljammer.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
It's not, it's a discussion of why the original Spelljammer wasn't quite the space opera it could have been.

And it's interesting in it's own right.

I think the word originated in alchemy. But you are right, pretty much the only person who new that stuff was the person who wrote Spelljammer.
Right, and as a weird bit of esoterica it’s vaguely interesting, but IMO it just doesn’t add anything to the setting, and actively makes “space” less grok-able.

But a fantasy space opera doesn’t need to be realistic at all, it just needs to have celestial bodies one can navigate to and visit like islands in a vast ocean, but that you can see as points of light from far away.

What spelljammer got right was weird ships and aliens and worlds.
 

Right, and as a weird bit of esoterica it’s vaguely interesting, but IMO it just doesn’t add anything to the setting, and actively makes “space” less grok-able.

But a fantasy space opera doesn’t need to be realistic at all, it just needs to have celestial bodies one can navigate to and visit like islands in a vast ocean, but that you can see as points of light from far away.

What spelljammer got right was weird ships and aliens and worlds.
Yes, I think the point is, like Ravenloft, WotC shouldn't be afraid to make changes to the original, the original wasn't perfect.

In this case, it needs to feature the space of the popular imagination, not the space of hard science, and not the esoteric* space of the original.


*synonym for weird.
 

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