D&D and the rising pandemic

[Umbran]

I had an Alaskan cruise booked when Covid hit. (My first ever attempt at a cruise). It took me six months to get my money back, and I don't think I'll ever want to try it again. Shame. I love the sea.

I'm sorry you had that experience.

Allow me to regale you with my experience with Disney Cruise Line service...

Spoiler: This is way tangential from the thread topic, but what the heck

Some years back now, my wife and I had booked a Disney cruise. We were flying from Boston to Orlando the same day the cruise left the port - get off the plane, get on a bus, get on the boat - Disney handles the luggage, even.

Three days before there was a major snowstorm in the Northeast. By the time we had to fly the airport was clear, but planes and people still weren't where they needed to be, so flights were running with major delays. We couldn't afford much of a delay or the boat wouldn't be there. There was also a mother and daughter on our flight, getting on the same boat.

We started to get nervous. But, we discovered that Disney had a weirdly specific phone dedicated to, "I am flying to Florida to get on a Disney cruise, and weather has delayed my flight." We called it, and informed them what ship we were supposed to get on, what flight we were on, and so forth. They asked us to keep them updated - while they could get our flight information, the systems often had a lag in reporting. (Or so they said - I am half of the opinion that the goal there was to allow the customer to feel like they are doing something, and have some control in a stress-laden situation.) We called them every half-hour or so.

We did finally take off, but very late - after when we nominally could have gotten on the boat. Disney told us to hold on but that, at worst, they'd arrange that we meet the boat at the first island stop, and we could spend the intervening day at the parks, if we wanted. But really, we should hold on, they would see what they could do.

And then we saw the Power of the Mouse.

This was after 9/11. People without tickets did not get beyond security to meet you at the gate. Except, Disney had someone. They whisked the four of us off to a bus (a big coach, the size of a Greyhound bus) that was waiting just for us. That took us to the terminal that was empty except for the staff needed to handle our paperwork, because everyone else was already on board...

...But they had held the entire ship for a half-hour, just for the four of us.

We also happened to get the last two all-week access passes to the adults-only spa area on that trip.

It was a really great vacation.

 

[billd91]

It's a point of pride, and perhaps shame, for me that I have never been to Disneyland. Or -World, for that matter.

For most of my life, I hadn’t had the opportunity. We went to closer parks instead (Great America, which has good roller coasters, so don’t feel too sorry for me). But I finally went and took my kids.

And Disney DOES hospitality. And now I get why people are repeat visitors about their Disney trips

 

[Imaculata]

I've been to Disneyland in California and to Disneyland Paris. Both were great experiences. But I'm staying away from themeparks right now, because I've noticed people don't really take masking all that serious. Especially when you're in a queue for a ride, people just take their masks off, and don't keep adequate distance. It's not worth my health or life.


By the way, I saw this piece about a day in the ICU, and what fantastic journalism.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I've been to Disneyland in California and to Disneyland Paris. Both were great experiences.

I think it was Malthus who first remarked that there is a certain inevitability to things. For example-

If you go to Disney World, you will go on the Small World ride. Because you kind of have to. And when you do, there is a 100% chance that the ride will get stuck.

Which will lead to the following observation:

For the first minute or two, the song will continue to be charming.
For the next minute or two, the song will no longer be charming, but will at least provide the comfort of nostalgia.
Following that, the song will begin to echo and make your soul to its rhythms, burrowing within and combining with the creepy ethnic stereotypes whirling around you to form some kind of apocalyptic hell.
Somewhere around minute 10, the hallucinations start. You will realize that not only is the world small, but so is the boat. This is bat country, and you need to escape.

Shortly thereafter, you will learn that the Disney secret police are large, burly, and overly-serious when it comes to their "Don't get out of the boat, sir" orders.

...or so I hear.

 

[Umbran]

But I'm staying away from themeparks right now, because I've noticed people don't really take masking all that serious.

Or, bringing it around to gaming - conventions. Pax Unplugged and Worldcon. Tons of stories of folks going improperly masked.

I saw one description go by of a woman wearing a mask with a zipper, that she opened when she talked. It is as if she completely failed to understand the point, after a year and a half and more of this.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, I will say there seem to be an enormous amount of people who still are under the impression your mask protects you (which is either untrue or negligible) rather than other people.

Of course some of the ones not wearing them may understand that all too well...

 

[Cadence]

Well, I will say there seem to be an enormous amount of people who still are under the impression your mask protects you (which is either untrue or negligible) rather than other people.

Do you have a favorite CDC/NIH/euro-equivalent link saying the N95 protection is negligible for the wearer? (Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) has links to papers and makes it sound like it still has some effect in protecting the wearer that goes beyond negligible -- even if there is a lot more protection going the other way).

In any case, if everyone masked and the spread decreased it kind of does protect everyone...

Of course some of the ones not wearing them may understand that all too well...

I'm not sure how much understanding is going on...

 

[Mannahnin]

Well, I will say there seem to be an enormous amount of people who still are under the impression your mask protects you (which is either untrue or negligible) rather than other people.

Do you have a favorite CDC/NIH/euro-equivalent link saying the N95 protection is negligible for the wearer? (Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) has links to papers and makes it sound like it still has some effect in protecting the wearer that goes beyond negligible -- even if there is a lot more protection going the other way).

In any case, if everyone masked and the spread decreased it kind of does protect everyone...

An N95, at least a properly fit-tested one which actually seals, does indeed protect the wearer. But almost no one is wearing a fit-tested N95 in public. They're mostly wearing cloth or surgical masks, or occasionally K-N95s or even full N95s which just haven't been fit-tested and so don't have a proper seal.

Non-fit-tested masks DO provide at least a little protection for the wearer, but it's pretty minor. The degree of protection varies depending on the thickness and material of the mask, and how well-fitted it is. Which is also true of its ability to catch your own respiratory droplets to protect others, but that efficacy is substantially greater than the degree to which it protects you. Both are aided by distancing, which reduces the amount of viral load either party is exposed to, though if you're in an enclosed area with an infected person for an extended period (say, an hour+), distancing isn't much help.

So you're both basically right- masks are primarily to reduce our own viral dispersal if we are pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic carriers, with only a secondary role of offering us some minor protection against viral spread from others. This is somewhat distinct from how the fit-tested masks and eye protection worn by frontline healthcare providers are indeed primarily for their own safety.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Do you have a favorite CDC/NIH/euro-equivalent link saying the N95 protection is negligible for the wearer?

Most people aren't wearing N95s. Even I don't and I take this a hell of a lot more seriously than most people.

And in terms of protecting everyone--but it doesn't have any direct contribution to protecting the wearer; group benefit is way too vague for many people.

I'm not sure how much understanding is going on...

Probably not a lot, but I'd be willing to bet with some people if the primary benefit of them wearing a mask isn't to protect them, they don't care.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

An N95, at least a properly fit-tested one which actually seals, does indeed protect the wearer. But almost no one is wearing a fit-tested N95 in public. They're mostly wearing cloth or surgical masks, or occasionally K-N95s or even full N95s which just haven't been fit-tested and so don't have a proper seal.

Non-fit-tested masks DO provide at least a little protection for the wearer, but it's pretty minor. The degree of protection varies depending on the thickness and material of the mask, and how well-fitted it is. Which is also true of its ability to catch your own respiratory droplets to protect others, but that efficacy is substantially greater than the degree to which it protects you.

IIRC, the whole issue with masks and public guidance was that at first, they were trying to preserve N95 masks (and similar) for front-line and health care workers, and because of supply issues didn't want people hoarding them. Which is why we started with the confusion about even wearing masks.

Then they realized that wearing any kind of mask (such as cloth) would protect others, so people starting wearing masks because we had mask requirements, but a lot of them didn't understand those subtle distinctions (plus, yay capitalism, every business started selling cloth masks to people).

Now there are sufficient supplies of N95 masks, but the messaging has been so messed up for so long people either aren't wearing masks, or are just wearing their supply of cloth masks as needed.