D&D 5E Split the Assassin from the Rogue back into its own class

Should the Assassin be made into its own class again?

  • Yes, the Assassin should split from the Rogue and be its own class

    Votes: 15 15.2%
  • Yes, the Assassin should split from the Rogue and take the Thief with it

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Yes (Other)

    Votes: 3 3.0%
  • No, the Assassin should stay where it is

    Votes: 65 65.7%
  • No, the Assassin should stay where it is. Someother subclass should split from the Rogue

    Votes: 3 3.0%
  • No, just make more killy Rogue subclasses

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • No (other)

    Votes: 8 8.1%
  • A THIEF is a THIEF! An ASSASSIN is an ASSASSIN! No Rogues.

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • I'm about to be Sneak Attacked

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • (Currently hiding)

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • Poll closed .

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
The rogue needs to be considerably better at weapon damage than a spell-throwing cleric!

And you need to come up with a different thing for each rogue subclass.

(a lot of what you are saying is coming across as hate for rogues. Is that really what you mean?)

I don't hate rogues.
I think the D&D community stuffs too much into the rogue class and is ruining it and the fighter.

The Rogue isn't even a real class right now. It and the fighter are foster homes for subclasses.

Rogue doesn't even mean anything except "Not a Warrior or Spellcaster". Rogue flavor is dead and I blame WOTC and a whole chunk of the community.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't hate rogues.
I think the D&D community stuffs too much into the rogue class and is ruining it and the fighter.

The Rogue isn't even a real class right now. It and the fighter are foster homes for subclasses.

Rogue doesn't even mean anything except "Not a Warrior or Spellcaster". Rogue flavor is dead and I blame WOTC and a whole chunk of the community.
The Rogue and the Fighter do have the highest power budget assigned to their Subclasses of the core 12, as opposed to the more core feature oriented Bard for example.

That's a feature, not a bug. It allows for a variety of archetypes to be covered elegantly.
 

I don't hate rogues.
I think the D&D community stuffs too much into the rogue class and is ruining it and the fighter.

The Rogue isn't even a real class right now. It and the fighter are foster homes for subclasses.

Rogue doesn't even mean anything except "Not a Warrior or Spellcaster". Rogue flavor is dead and I blame WOTC and a whole chunk of the community.
Okay, so the thing you hate is subclasses.

But "Rogue" is a very good catch-all term. "a person or thing that behaves in an aberrant or unpredictable way" - dictionary definition 2. See Rogue Squadron (Star Wars), Rogue (X-Men) etc.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I don't hate rogues.
I think the D&D community stuffs too much into the rogue class and is ruining it and the fighter.

The Rogue isn't even a real class right now. It and the fighter are foster homes for subclasses.

Rogue doesn't even mean anything except "Not a Warrior or Spellcaster". Rogue flavor is dead and I blame WOTC and a whole chunk of the community.
I agree with much of this. I think the problem is there isn't an "Expert" class and unfortunately the Rogue and Bard, due to expertise, are forced to serve that role.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
The Rogue and the Fighter do have the highest power budget assigned to their Subclasses of the core 12, as opposed to the more core feature oriented Bard for example.

That's a feature, not a bug. It allows for a variety of archetypes to be covered elegantly.
It's a feature to not create new classes and because WOTC was afraid of the fanbbase to stamp down on core flavor or mechanics.

It's 1000% a feature. A bad one IMO.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
It's a feature to not create new classes and because WOTC was afraid of the fanbbase to stamp down on core flavor or mechanics.

It's 1000% a feature. A bad one IMO.
Mechanics aren't flavor and do not have flavor in themselves, they serve flavor within a design framework. Elegance is one of the best indicators of good design.
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
One extra class that overlaps significantly with three others. Where do you stop? A slightly more fighty cleric? A slightly less fighty cleric? A slightly more holy monk? Pathfinder had at least 50-something classes at last count.

5e has 13, and that is already too much overlap.
Overlap doesn't matter. If for some reason you or your players care about overlap, just choose classes that don't. So if player A picks the slightly more fighty cleric, nobody else picks a cleric. That way your players don't overlap and those of us who don't care about overlap and want more classes all have what they want.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
Overlap doesn't matter. If for some reason you or your players care about overlap, just choose classes that don't. So if player A picks the slightly more fighty cleric, nobody else picks a cleric. That way your players don't overlap and those of us who don't care about overlap and want more classes all have what they want.
I mean, I'd say the reasonabl3 compromise Ground is what we have now already with 13 Classes in 5E, instead of 4 with robust Subclasses as D&D Next started with.
 

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