D&D (2024) New Classes for 5e. Is anything missing?

[Frozen_Heart]

The only non-setting specific archetype 5E can't currently do using the existing classes is the psion. Psionic subclasses work well enough for a few subtypes, but the core concept of a psion doesn't fit into any of the classes neatly enough. I wouldn't mind a true half-caster warrior-mage, but this is a nit-pick difference between a 1/2 caster and the 1/3 caster eldritch knight.

It's less the difference between a 1/3 and 1/2, and more a load of other abilities which set them apart.

As eldritch knight is tied to the fighter power budget, all the things which set the gishes apart in prior editions have had to be axed, nerfed, or delayed to high level.

Like for example due to being a subclass it has to just use the wizard list, which is awful for martial combat blended with weapons. A single class swordmage would have its own list, full of spells which it can integrate into its weapon strikes. Look at the paladin and ranger lists, and compare them to the cleric and druid lists. The theme is the same, but the spells have a different focus.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Which is the other problem: most suggested classes are "an existing subclass, but it doesn't suck."

Note that the argument against making a new class is rarely if ever "the subclass don't suck." No one really defends Eldritch Knight or says Battlemaster makes a perfect Warlord - they usually just don't see a whole new class as the solution.

Trouble is in 5e, the subclass is quite minor in the power budget next to the main class. So sure you can say eldritch knight or battlemaster isn't that good at replicating the swordmage or warlord.

But it doesn't matter what subclass you come up with, it still needs to be balanced against the main classes power. You can't have something with the support power a warlord should have, because it will also be getting 4 attacks, action surge, and tons of ASI increases.

 

[Minigiant]

It's less the difference between a 1/3 and 1/2, and more a load of other abilities which set them apart.

As eldritch knight is tied to the fighter power budget, all the things which set the gishes apart in prior editions have had to be axed, nerfed, or delayed to high level.

Like for example due to being a subclass it has to just use the wizard list, which is awful for martial combat blended with weapons. A single class swordmage would have its own list, full of spells which it can integrate into its weapon strikes. Look at the paladin and ranger lists, and compare them to the cleric and druid lists. The theme is the same, but the spells have a different focus.

The big one is
No designer or DM designs spells for subclasses.

If ranger and paladin were subclasses, there'd be no hunter's mark, lightning arrow, beast sense, find steed, or any of the smite spells.

 

[bedir than]

The big one is
No designer or DM designs spells for subclasses.

If ranger and paladin were subclasses, there'd be no hunter's mark, lightning arrow, beast sense, find steed, or any of the smite spells.

I do wish the Eldritch Knight and Bladesinger had access to the Smite and Strike spells

 

[Aldarc]

I do wish the Eldritch Knight and Bladesinger had access to the Smite and Strike spells

The idea of smite - using spell slots to supply damage - is so Gish that's almost criminal that it's part of the Paladin and not a Swordmage.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I still really thinkk D&D is missing a Super Soldier class. The Warrior version of the Warlock where you pick up minor powers and focus on classic super powers.

Mythology, Religion, Comics, Literature, TV, and Movies are filled with heroes with super powers

Hercules, Achilles, Odysseus, Atalanta, Jason, Perseus, Samson, Gigamesh, Enkidu, DC Metas, Marvel Mutants, Captian Amerian and all his wannabes, Warhammer's Chaos knight, Grail Knights, and Spess Mahreens, almost every super soldiers, seft mad scientist creations, and almost all people "Blessed by the Gods"

that witcher guy would also count as he is augmented to be super.

 

[bedir than]

The idea of smite - using spell slots to supply damage - is so Gish that's almost criminal that it's part of the Paladin and not a Swordmage.

I'm talking the spells rather than the feature.
But having a spell mimic that feature (kinda like Hex and Hunter's Mark) for Bladesinger and Eldritch Knight makes sense

 

[Frozen_Heart]

The idea of smite - using spell slots to supply damage - is so Gish that's almost criminal that it's part of the Paladin and not a Swordmage.

Thing is it suits both classes a lot.

So there is an argument that there is too much overlap for them to both be classes.

But then that opens up the argument that in that case the class should have been designed to be able to satisfy both the divine and arcane gish characters, rather than being super thematically and mechanically focused on the divine theme.

Though the arcane gish was never about damage and only damage from their magic attacks. There were tons of other possible effects.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Thing is it suits both classes a lot.

So there is an argument that there is too much overlap for them to both be classes.

But then that opens up the argument that in that case the class should have been designed to be able to satisfy both the divine and arcane gish characters, rather than being super thematically and mechanically focused on the divine theme.

Though the arcane gish was never about damage and only damage from their magic attacks. There were tons of other possible effects.

would it perhaps benefit from getting a power that leans into the alternatives?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The two classes I would like to see added are Warlord and Summoner. The former because it would be an olive branch to 4e fans, the latter because I just like summoning, but am aware that a summoning-specialized subclass is almost always going to either be underpowered (e.g. Pact of the Chain) or stupidly broken (thankfully no extant examples in 5e AIUI). A dedicated class allows the power of summoning to be a core thematic and gameplay focus without falling into either the Beast Master Ranger or PF "ALL the summoned minions" Master Summoner holes.

These are, not so coincidentally, the classes I've taken at least a partial swing at developing for 5e. My summoner remains woefully incomplete and the warlord has never left the "high concept" stage, but I have spent time thinking about it.