D&D General How do players feel about DM fudging?

[Lyxen]

And the assumption in this comment is that the DM is acting without regard to the players. But many DMs have a very good idea of what their players like about playing D&D. My current group have been playing together for 14 years now, every two weeks. We know each other and our gaming preferences extremely well at this point. So the DM does actually know what we like in a game, and has the authority to use that information to run the game.

Good point. In the case of our groups, many of us have been playing together for almost 40 years now, so we indeed know how to make games better for others within the framework of a particular campaign since we sometimes change paradigms and have long sessions 0 to make sure that we are aligned. Moreover, as most of the players are also DMs in other campaigns, it helps in knowing what players would expect.

 

[loverdrive]

You mean a game such as a D&D game where the DM fudges to prevent too much death by randomness? That sort of game?

Y'know, a proper storytelling game, where story concerns are taken into account by the rules without someone unilaterally deciding to do some cheating behind the screen.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's weird how the general vibe is that the DM is the main character who gets to do whatever they want because 'DMing is hard' and apparently not voluntary, but the second they do something pro-player and pro-story, they're a cheating scumbag who deserves all sorts of random insults.

 

[Fifth Element]

Y'know, a proper storytelling game, where story concerns are taken into account by the rules without someone unilaterally deciding to do some cheating behind the screen.

Or, y'know, they can play D&D how they like to play D&D, without worrying about whether someone thinks they shouldn't play D&D that way.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't know why we needed an another thread, I doubt the DM and player perspectives will remain contained in the distinct threads anyway.

As a player, I don't care. I trust the GM does what they think is the best to produce an enjoyable game. And sure, there are all sort of things GM can do that might result the game being unfun to the players, but it rarely is the tools themselves that are good or bad, it is how they're being used.

 

[Lyxen]

Y'know, a proper storytelling game, where story concerns are taken into account by the rules

Sure, the rules take care of the story, well known fact...

without someone unilaterally deciding to do some cheating behind the screen.

Ah yes, so the DM who is empowered by the players to make any ruling he wants whenever he wants is now "cheating". How is that even possible ? I though "cheating" was breaking the rules, but since he can make them at will, there can be no cheating.

 

[Maxperson]

Y'know, a proper storytelling game, where story concerns are taken into account by the rules without someone unilaterally deciding to do some cheating behind the screen.

The DM literally cannot cheat. The DM is the rules, so abuses of authority are possible, but not cheating. Especially in 5e where fudging is literally sanctioned in the DMG, so not cheating no matter which way you go on DM authority.

 

[iserith]

I think that there are some important things for everyone to remember regarding Fudging. The DMG talks about fudging and gives advice about it. So it is part of the game and cannot rightly be called cheating. If the game says it is a tool the DM can use IT IS NOT CHEATING.

While I agree that fudging isn't cheating (the DM can't cheat), the section you're referring to in the DMG is in the context of talking about using a DM screen or not. This is in the section on Table Rules. It is not an endorsement of fudging or suggesting it is part of the base game. Rather, it is suggesting it be a topic for the DM to go over when setting expectations with the group. That's all. And that's good advice in my view. I would certainly want to know if my DM is thinking about fudging so I can make an attempt at talking them out of it!

 

[Li Shenron]

And the assumption in this comment is that the DM is acting without regard to the players. But many DMs have a very good idea of what their players like about playing D&D. My current group have been playing together for 14 years now, every two weeks. We know each other and our gaming preferences extremely well at this point. So the DM does actually know what we like in a game, and has the authority to use that information to run the game.

And the assumption in yours is that the alternative to fudging is "acting without regard to the players"?

 

[Maxperson]

While I agree that fudging isn't cheating (the DM can't cheat), the section you're referring to in the DMG is in the context of talking about using a DM screen or not. This is in the section on Table Rules. It is not an endorsement of fudging or suggesting it is part of the base game. Rather, it is suggesting it be a topic for the DM to go over when setting expectations with the group. That's all. And that's good advice in my view. I would certainly want to know if my DM is thinking about fudging so I can make an attempt at talking them out of it!

The section literally says, "This section gives recommendations for table rules you can establish to help meet that goal." They are recommending fudging as a table rule. That's an endorsement!