D&D 5E How do you feel about PC abilities being nerfed by the DM?

[Mort]

So I get why people turns up their noses at 5e Polymorph. The INT alteration suck most of the fun out of getting to be a big monkey, especially since it is tailor made for bad DMS to abuse you with.

Sure In: 7 is low, but it's not THAT low. If cast on a fighter/barbarian that used INT as a dump stat it could barely register as a difference, especially since personality is kept. And it's a REALLY good emergency heal spell (with a fairly large caveat of caster's concentration - but still).

Now for other purposes, say trying to turn someone into a bird etc. to help scout? Then the spell is going to disappoint.

IMO polymorph is a great spell. Huge beneficial (or detrimental if cast on a foe) effect but just enough downsides to not really be overpowered.

 

[James Gasik]

It's more that you can't use your own abilities when polymorphed. A Rogue can't Sneak Attack, for example. Nor could a Paladin Smite. So even though I saw it as a way to hand out "temporary hp" and a boost to combat effectiveness, they were like "but I won't be playing the character I want to play, but a monkey instead".

The fact that said monkey performed very well in that fight apparently irked everyone, as if to say "wow, your 7th level character is less powerful than a cheap King Kong knockoff!".

I don't think it was unbalanced for what we were dealing with enemy wise, but I did get a very lucky roll on that crit...

 

[Mort]

It's more that you can't use your own abilities when polymorphed. A Rogue can't Sneak Attack, for example. Nor could a Paladin Smite. So even though I saw it as a way to hand out "temporary hp" and a boost to combat effectiveness, they were like "but I won't be playing the character I want to play, but a monkey instead".

The fact that said monkey performed very well in that fight apparently irked everyone, as if to say "wow, your 7th level character is less powerful than a cheap King Kong knockoff!".

I don't think it was unbalanced for what we were dealing with enemy wise, but I did get a very lucky roll on that crit...

Yet again, people remember outliers. And one DEFINITELY should not rely on outliers for deciding on nerfs etc.

 

[Fanaelialae]

It's more that you can't use your own abilities when polymorphed. A Rogue can't Sneak Attack, for example. Nor could a Paladin Smite. So even though I saw it as a way to hand out "temporary hp" and a boost to combat effectiveness, they were like "but I won't be playing the character I want to play, but a monkey instead".

The fact that said monkey performed very well in that fight apparently irked everyone, as if to say "wow, your 7th level character is less powerful than a cheap King Kong knockoff!".

I don't think it was unbalanced for what we were dealing with enemy wise, but I did get a very lucky roll on that crit...

When I played a mage with polymorph, I generally kept it in reserve as a safety net. If I saw that one of the party was about to go down, I turned them into a giant ape (or something similar). There were no complaints. Playing an animal is more fun than making death saves. That move saved our bacon in at least one fight, which otherwise would have probably been a TPK.

I can appreciate why those players didn't want it by default. While it's a decent damage option for a mage (as long as you can maintain concentration) it's arguably a damage and versatility loss for fighters at many levels, especially while they still have resources like action surge and battle master dice in reserve.

 

[James Gasik]

That's probably a fair point, I should have waited to bust it out. In my mind, it was a spell that gets more mileage when cast early. Of course, as a recovering 3e player, I'm used to Rogue's eyes lighting up when you say things such as "do you want to be a hydra?"

 

[Mort]

When I played a mage with polymorph, I generally kept it in reserve as a safety net. If I saw that one of the party was about to go down, I turned them into a giant ape (or something similar). There were no complaints. Playing an animal is more fun than making death saves. That move saved our bacon in at least one fight, which otherwise would have probably been a TPK.

I can appreciate why those players didn't want it by default. While it's a decent damage option for a mage (as long as you can maintain concentration) it's arguably a damage and versatility loss for fighters at many levels, especially while they still have resources like action surge and battle master dice in reserve.

Right, When the fighter is near full HP has maneuver dice and action surge left - not the best. When the fighter is in single digits, no maneuver dice left and action surge and second wind have been used? Triple digit hit points and a decent attack start looking pretty good!

 

[CleverNickName]

Yeah, polymorph was ridiculous in 3e. (Rogues too, for that matter.)

The more I look back, the more satisfied I am with 5E.

 

[James Gasik]

Rogues were ridiculous in 3e? Do you mean ridiculously bad?

 

[Mort]

Rogues were ridiculous in 3e? Do you mean ridiculously bad?

Sadly I was wondering the same thing. A wizard with access to scribe scroll etc. Could EASILY do pretty much everything a rogue could do and still have plenty of oomph left over for his own schtick. Not ideal!

But that's for a different thread!

 

[Hussar]

It's more that you can't use your own abilities when polymorphed. A Rogue can't Sneak Attack, for example. Nor could a Paladin Smite. So even though I saw it as a way to hand out "temporary hp" and a boost to combat effectiveness, they were like "but I won't be playing the character I want to play, but a monkey instead".

The fact that said monkey performed very well in that fight apparently irked everyone, as if to say "wow, your 7th level character is less powerful than a cheap King Kong knockoff!".

I don't think it was unbalanced for what we were dealing with enemy wise, but I did get a very lucky roll on that crit...

As was mentioned earlier, we all remember the outliers.

I have an artificer in my group with a pet mechanical bear. 5th level, and getting effectively three attacks per round, one of which is force damage and the other two are magical due to the character simply making a magic weapon. I was rather taken aback, to be honest, about how much damage this character was pumping out. And, I did kinda raise the nerf flag, a bit, but not actually do anything right away. More a, "is this overpowered or not"? sort of thing.

And then I did what I thing EVERY DM should do before deciding to wave the nerf bat. TRACK THE DAMAGE. I tracked the party's actual damage over the course of about 30 rounds of combat. And, yup, her character was right in the middle of the pack. Not overpowered at all. Sure, there's the HP boost from the pet, but, that's generally not a huge thing. It's a big boost that can go away in a couple of attacks that means it burns resources to get back and probably won't be available for the rest of the combat.

I can't stress enough tracking the stats. It is so important before making any sort of decision about nerfing.