Spelljammer D&D Direct Live Report: 9am PDT (5pm BST) SPELLJAMMER CONFIRMED! DRAGONLANCE!

pkt77242 · Apr 21, 2022

Ruin Explorer said:
$15 is not "fair" for a DM's screen, it's highway robbery.

And $20 is not "fair" for a 64-page book, either. Nor is it "fair" to have no option for a non-hardback book which would presumably be considerably be cheaper unless WotC are truly super-gouging.

Nor is an 80% price increase on a digital product "fair", I would suggest, and I don't think you even disagree with that last.#

This is luxury pricing/packaging for fans, not reasonable pricing/packaging for players/DMs, and it's testing the waters, I would suggest, for D&D rebranding itself into a sort of "premium" or "lifestyle" brand/IP, rather than a TTRPG. Something I've been anticipating them doing for a while.

How is $20 not fair for a 64 page book?

Henadic Theologian · Apr 21, 2022

Spelljammer and Dragonlance Return in Dungeons & Dragons' New Adventures

At the first D&D Direct livestream, Wizards of the Coast announced the next adventures coming to Dungeons & Dragons, with a new Starter Set and the return of classic settings Starjammer and Dragonlance set for later in 2022.

www.google.com

It's confirmed that the hard spell Phistgon or whatever has been replaced by the Astral Plane. That changes the setting radically, but honestly it seems to make it cooler.

Levistus's_Leviathan · Apr 21, 2022

Ruin Explorer said:
Just as an additional point of bitterness

Which is not necessary.

Ruin Explorer said:
lol if the next throwback setting book (the last one before 2024 I believe) isn't Planescape or Dark Sun I am done buying anything from WotC until 2024 lol.

There's already a few hints at Dark Sun (the Thri-Kreen are included in these books, there's a Nightmare Beast in the free PDF they released today, we've got psionics in Tasha's), so my guess is that it will be the next classic adventure release after Dragonlance.

I honestly have no idea what it could be if it's not Dark Sun or Planescape. Greyhawk is possible, but not popular enough/different enough from the FR to warrant a full release, IMO. And I don't see Birthright, Mystara, or Nentir Vale as being likely, either.

So, yeah. The classic setting book next year will probably be Planescape or Dark Sun. I'm guessing Dark Sun.

Urriak Uruk · Apr 21, 2022

dave2008 said:
That was not commodity cost I gave, but an installed cost that includes fabrication and installation. However, i will stop using it since it seems to bother you and others.

Just to point out someone up thread prices each if the items individually from WotC and the cost came to $100, so $70 is a discount!

But look, this is my point. If they had stuck with the old format of a single book (which they could have easily done with the page count), they'd be fully justified to price at $60. You can use an inflation calculator to see that a $50 price in 2014 is now $60, so that's a fair increase.

This new format may be perfectly fair from a cost perspective, but its frustrating as it includes things I don't need like a DMs screen and a slipcase for three books than can easily be one.

I'm personally crossing my fingers that eventually Spelljammer will get another release where the three books are combined into one $60 book, but I'm not too hopeful on that.

Ruin Explorer · Apr 21, 2022

Parmandur said:
WotC did charge $20 for 64 page hardcovers in 4E, which would be over $25 now if yheybstill published 64 page hardcovers (like they are just doing). The current official DM screen actually is $25, just checking now. So, what WotC would usually price for $100 individually are in a $70 package. I'm not going to say that's some fantastic deal, but it's fair and I'll pay it. I understand where you are coming from.

To be real insult for me is the page count. I've played RPGs for a long time, and one thing I've learned is, outside some really exceptional supplements, is that, given how much space is given over to the bestiary and so on, that page count is not going to be enough to really reach the potential of a setting.

And in Ye Olde Dayes, that didn't matter a lot, because settings were only the beginning - there'd inevitably be a ton of sourcebooks associated with a setting, as well as adventures. Here I believe we're getting an adventure, which is nice, but once that's done, that's likely absolutely it for Spelljammer for another 10 or 20 years. When you're going to publish a setting so rarely, which not give it a bit more oomph? A few dozen or a hundred or one-fifty pages probably doesn't add to the cost that much (book experts correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd like number if so), but the value it adds, when a setting is only published ever 10-20 years, is frankly immense. But I feel like them not doing that shows they just don't care - that this isn't an evergreen product, but rather a fan/nostalgia cash-in. And I'm sure it'll be hugely successful (unlike the new starter set, which I think the D&D Cartoon tease on is going to backfire pretty hard on - never make a nerd mad, especially a casual but nostalgic nerd!).

Slapping that sort of price on something and then actually having just as few pages as the skinnier and less useful books is not really cool imo.

One thing I observed to a friend recently as an adult with a decent-paying job is that, it's not really about cost in the "I can't afford it!" sense it was when we were younger. Obviously I can technically afford $20 more. It's more about value proposition, about what you're being offered. And I know people love to come up with truly demented oranges-and-uranium comparisons, but leaving that lunacy aside, and comparing like-with-like, I just don't see a good value proposition here. I see one so insultingly bad that I actively want to walk away from the entire company - which WotC have never made me feel before - though D&D Beyond has come close a couple of times - but now that is WotC. And I expect that will keep happening.

I imagine they'll keep a lid on the prices of the "big three" books for 2024 and keep a free basic set, because taking the big 3 to say $70, even though each is better value than this, would push "D&D" over the $200 mark, which is known to be distinctly off-putting to customers. So $60 or even less is likely. But I'd be very unsurprised to see supplements and sourcebooks staying extremely skinny, staying 192 pages or even declining to 160 or less, and going for $70 or more as we continue though this decade, post-2024.

overgeeked · Apr 21, 2022

Urriak Uruk said:
I feel like I'm on a loop here, but 3 books 64 pages each can easily be one book. Before, that'd be $50. Accounting for inflation, which overall since 2014 is 20%, an increase to $60 is a fair price hike, and one I'd be comfortable purchasing.

Books are not made of steel. Please don't use one material's price variation to make a point about something completely unrelated.

I don't want to divert into general politics, but many companies have been using the loose term of "inflation" to hike prices beyond the increase of their actual costs, and this reformatted book style to me looks like an excuse to increase prices rather than a legitimate increase in costs.

So. Pages are worth $50. Cool. Now factor in the double-sided map ($10-15) and the DM‘s screen ($10-15) and the slipcase ($10-15). Awesome. So. A product that’s going to retail at $70 is worth at least $80 if not $95.

Any chance you will nope out instead of venting spleen all day?

OB1 · Apr 21, 2022

I'm curious as to how they're packing the 12 'cliffhanger' episodes (1 for each level) into 64 pages. That's 5 pages per episode plus 4 pages of intro. Either this is going to require a lot of DM imagination or is almost nothing but text.

darjr · Apr 21, 2022

Henadic Theologian said:
Spelljammer and Dragonlance Return in Dungeons & Dragons' New Adventures

At the first D&D Direct livestream, Wizards of the Coast announced the next adventures coming to Dungeons & Dragons, with a new Starter Set and the return of classic settings Starjammer and Dragonlance set for later in 2022.

www.google.com

It's confirmed that the hard spell Phistgon or whatever has been replaced by the Astral Plane. That changes the setting radically, but honestly it seems to make it cooler.

So we get our “space” and astral sea too?

Urriak Uruk · Apr 21, 2022

overgeeked said:
So. Pages are worth $50. Cool. Now factor in the double-sided map ($10-15) and the DM‘s screen ($10-15) and the slipcase ($10-15). Awesome. So. A product that’s going to retail at $70 is worth at least $80 if not $95.

Any chance you will nope out instead of venting spleen all day?

Man I am in a time loop. I've said REPEATEDLY how the new format is ridiculous as it includes a bunch of things I don't need, including the DMs Screen and the slipcase (not including the map, so many books have these included already).

If this is one release version, and you could just pick up a normal Spelljammer book for $60, great! No complaints from me. When Curse of Strahd Ravamped was announced, I didn't complain; I can get normal Curse of Strahd within my budget.

But locking consumers into nick-nacks they don't need to getting more $ out of them is NOT something I'm happy about, and breaking down the price isn't going to convince me to shell out more of my wallet.