D&D (2024) Is the 5E player base going to split?

[LordEntrails]

First of all, weren't the original hardcovers 12.95 or less? Anyhow, $15 in 1978 inflates to over $60 today.

Not sure. Google told me $15, but I didn't dive in to verify.

 

[cbwjm]

It's not going to be an edition split like 3e/4e. I expect it's going to be more like a 1e UA/non-UA kind of split. Some people aren't going to use the updated racial abilities/monsters in Multiverse because they don't like the changes or because they don't own the resource.

That's probably going to be me. I might get it if there is some sale that makes the book super cheap on dndbeyond, but I'm not likely to buy the book. Having said that, I might manually update the races, what they've done with genasi I kind of like.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's probably going to be me. I might get it if there is some sale that makes the book super cheap on dndbeyond, but I'm not likely to buy the book. Having said that, I might manually update the races, what they've done with genasi I kind of like.

Yeah, I manually updated all the races I use to Level Up's heritage/culture/background/destiny system. It works so much better than anything WotC or TSR came up with.

 

[James Gasik]

Understandable, and I don't think you'll need to replace your old core to continue to play new APs or CSs. I believe the new core will primarily be for new players and that it will mostly just be an inclusion of some of the Everything splatbook options (with some becoming the new standard) in the case of the PHB and a MotM style rewrite of the original MM.

I don't think WotC will try to get every existing player to purchase a new PHB (though some will), rather they are going to try to refresh the entry point so that a player doesn't need to purchase 3 or 4 books right from the start. If you already have the old PHB and the two Everything guides, the only reason you would need to purchase the 2024 PHB would be for ease of reference.

I don't know though, as a company in the business of making money so they can show profits to their corporate overlords to prove the sustainability of the brand, I would think that yes, WotC definitely wants to sell as many copies of each book as they can.

 

[dave2008]

For me, the descriptions of duergar in various editions tells me everything i need to know about them. Like reading a novel, I can then make my own mental image of what they look like without being limited by art.

How about your players? Do you assume you have the same mental image or different mental images? Do desire to reconcile these? Does it matter?

The only time art really turned me on to a RPG product was the original Planescape art in 2e. Tony DiTerlizzi's work was and is amazing.

Yep, I can tell we are coming from different places. I respect Tony's work, but I don't really like his style and it is just not D&D to me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

For me, the descriptions of duergar in various editions tells me everything i need to know about them. Like reading a novel, I can then make my own mental image of what they look like without being limited by art.

The only time art really turned me on to a RPG product was the original Planescape art in 2e. Tony DiTerlizzi's work was and is amazing.

I must admit, the idea of art being limiting in any way to my imagination is wholly alien to me.

Do you imagine that I see an image I like of a svirfneblin and...can't imagine them any way but how they're depicted in that image?

First off, I love Mitch Hedberg (RIP).

They say that when he passed, he was guided to the divine escalator up to heaven. It had a sign next to it, reading, "Escalator temporarily stairs. We're sorry for the convenience, of you still being able to get up there."

Second of all, I know exactly which pen-stylus you're talking about - several companies make it (e.g. Troika). I was looking at that just recently.

Yep. We sell them at my work, though our price for them sucks. I'm going to get a set of the matte black ones soon.

But yes, I'm very picky about such things as well, and almost always prefer metal. If you want any suggestions on mechanical pencils, send me a PM - don't want to derail the thread (too much). The reddit page on mechanical pencils is fun to browse, although it likely won't do wonders for your wallet. My favorites that I own are the Kaweco Brass Special and the Caran D'Ache Ecridor. I also love the Kaweco Sketch Up - just a fun chuck of metal.

Will do. I've only recently gotten past the point of feeling silly spending 20$ at office depot for a single pen.

Another example are notebooks, as you mentioned. I've settled on the Blackwing Slate as my go-to for something I carry around, which is somewhat unfortunate as it is a bit more expensive than average - and far more than the type of cheap notebook you find in drug stores.

Yeah, I have a small collection of hand-made notebooks that I really like, but I really want to get my hands on something a little more purpose built for taking notes over time. Something with some built in organization. I keep thinking about the idea I had to have pages sectioned off and numbered in the first section of the notebook, with say 3 sections per page, and then corresponding multi-page sections further on. So you've got space for the quick notes like names and such with a section number like 1a, 1b, 1c, and you can expand on a given section in the back where maybe there are no numbers but just a place to write in numbers, all in a framework where you can add pages to a section, and easily go back and forth. So, expanded section 1a can grow as your notes about the necromancer whose cult you're pursueing get more detailed, but finding the notes on the NPC crime lord medusa you met months into the game while a bunch of other stuff was also happening is still easy to find, because you just flip through the reference index in the front.

I'm sure one of the various modular notebooks out there could be made to do all that, I just haven't found the best one fro the job yet.

I haven't looked at MotM, but I hear you. The aesthetic (and artistic) experience is part of it, which is also why I relate with folks who don't like whatever the latest art trend is. And also why I'm happy when the alt cover of a new D&D book is not to my liking! (e.g. the Spelljammer set), but sucks when I missed out on an alt cover I do like, but has since risen in price beyond what I'm willing to pay for (e.g. Tasha's).

Oh yeah, some of the early alt covers are gorgeous but I doubt I'll ever pick them up now. First one I got was Eberron. It broke the seal by just being so damn perfect, on the book i'd been waiting for since 2014, both in terms of fitting the setting, and just fitting my personal aesthetic preferences.

I mean, I extend this to other hobbies - I like to collect old 1960s-70s mass market science fiction and fantasy novels, because some of the "New Wave" art is just so fun. In general, when I'm looking for an out-of-print book, I look to see what editions exist so I can get the cover that is most aesthetically pleasing to me.

Oh yeah, genre fiction related art from the last century is so chock full of incredible gems. I wish more novels had chapter art, tbh.

One thing I want to do when I publish my game, is to have a mix of gorgeous fantastical art, and hand drawn in-world scribbling like you see in a lot of Stephen King novels. I'll show you the sign of the Crimson King, sure, but the first time you see it is going to be as it was scrawled on the wall of the building where his servants congregate in downtown New York.

Imagery is just...fundamental to understanding the world, in my experience.

 

[James Gasik]

It might not be D&D, but it's definitely Planescape.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How about your players? Do you assume you have the same mental image or different mental images? Do desire to reconcile these? Does it matter?

Yep, I can tell we are coming from different places. I respect Tony's work, but I don't really like his style and it is just not D&D to me.

It doesn't really matter, they can have their own specific image as long as they understand the description and the narration.

As was said above, Tony's work was not really D&D. But it was Planescape, and I loved it. Pretty happy with the Monstrous Manual stuff he did too.

 

[dave2008]

Additionally, I like to for a novel, not so much for an RPG. I can

It doesn't really matter, they can have their own specific image as long as they understand the description and the narration.

It matters to me. That is a reason we have used minis since 1e. I want everyone to have a similar mental image of what is going on and what they are facing. I don't trust my descriptive abilities to do that, so I rely on art a lot.

As was said above, Tony's work was not really D&D. But it was Planescape, and I loved it. Pretty happy with the Monstrous Manual stuff he did too.

Some people love him, some don't. I am one of those that doesn't

 

[cbwjm]

It matters to me. That is a reason we have used minis since 1e. I want everyone to have a similar mental image of what is going on and what they are facing. I don't trust my descriptive abilities to do that, so I really on art a lot.

We'll use theatre of the mind, or whatever we have on hand for minis if it's a complicated battle, but when it comes to describing what the players are up against, nothing works better than me bringing up an image on my laptop and showing it to them, particularly when playing with newer players. I've built up various archives of art for this purpose.