Spelljammer Chris Perkins and Ray Winninger Interview Discussing Spelljammer and Product Development

[Micah Sweet]

Theros had no dragonborn, no tieflings, and in fact no core PHB races besides humans. Granted, MTG settings might be treated differently, and that was pre-Tasha... but still, limited-race settings have been done under 5E.

Pre-Tasha is very much a different beast too.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Quasi-historical fiction is a perfectly valid form. We all know a lot of people were awful in the past. That doesn't mean that we can't mine anything from it.

I don't think that's what @Parmandur was remarking on. The part of Mystara's base premise that I find objectionable is completely ripping off real-world cultures (or caricatures of them) and slapping them on various D&D races. That is what leads to awful, racist products like Orcs of Thar.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think that's what @Parmandur was remarking on. The part of Mystara's base premise that I find objectionable is completely ripping off real-world cultures (or caricatures of them) and slapping them on various D&D races. That is what leads to awful, racist products like Orcs of Thar.

What if they were human cultures instead? Would it make any difference? How accurate does a culture have to be for you to not consider it a caricature?

 

[Parmandur]

What if they were human cultures instead? Would it make any difference? How accurate does a culture have to be for you to not consider it a caricature?

No, human cultures as 1 dimensional stereotypes is pretty bad, too. It is better to be as divorced as possible from real cultures.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

What if they were human cultures instead?

Then Orcs of Thar would still be racist. Clearly it's more than just that.

Would it make any difference?

Probably. But also probably not enough to get rid of all of the problems with it.

How accurate does a culture have to be for you to not consider it a caricature?

For me, it's generally an "I'll know it when I see it" kind of thing. People of those cultures might have specific points. It depends on the culture, the execution, and the tone that the product has about that culture. But a core part of avoiding caricaturing a culture is to involve people of that culture (or that have studied it extensively and know about the topic). Cultural consultants are important. And early D&D products based on real-world cultures, from what I've heard, did not have them. The upcoming Radiant Citadel and Mystara have similar ideas of adopting real-world cultures for D&D settings, but I have no doubt that Radiant Citadel will do it better than Mystara did.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, human cultures as 1 dimensional stereotypes is pretty bad, too. It is better to be as divorced as possible from real cultures.

Real cultures are what we have to work with. Narrative's ingredients are the world we live in, enhanced by our imagination.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then Orcs of Thar would still be racist. Clearly it's more than just that.

Probably. But also probably not enough to get rid of all of the problems with it.

For me, it's generally an "I'll know it when I see it" kind of thing. People of those cultures might have specific points. It depends on the culture, the execution, and the tone that the product has about that culture. But a core part of avoiding caricaturing a culture is to involve people of that culture (or that have studied it extensively and know about the topic). Cultural consultants are important. And early D&D products based on real-world cultures, from what I've heard, did not have them. The upcoming Radiant Citadel and Mystara have similar ideas of adopting real-world cultures for D&D settings, but I have no doubt that Radiant Citadel will do it better than Mystara did.

Oriental Adventures had cultural consultants too, but no one ever seems to give them credit for that. Public opinion will try any creative work as they see fit.

 

[Parmandur]

Real cultures are what we have to work with. Narrative's ingredients are the world we live in, enhanced by our imagination.

Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk do a better job remixing to prevent those sort of 1-dimensional takes.

 

[Azzy]

Oriental Adventures had cultural consultants too, but no one ever seems to give them credit for that. Public opinion will try any creative work as they see fit.

A handful of Japanese playtesters do not cultural consultants make.

 

[lkj]

And Exandria. And Ravenloft. And one other setting in 2024, apparently. Greyhawk might even count with all of the adventures it gets in the anthologies.

While I don't disagree that those are worlds that showed up in more than one product, I think it's hard to argue those are lines in the same sense as 2E.

Though, arguably, the critical role books come closest

AD