D&D (2024) Perfect edition update (kinda + thread)

[Vaalingrade]

Bit to swingy.

I would make them have a higher crit range instead and the rapier wouldn't be the only 18-20 crit weapon.

Champion could crit on 15+ using the right weapon.

But in the true perfect edition, there are no Champion Fighters.

 

[Zardnaar]

But in the true perfect edition, there are no Champion Fighters.

Might not use that term might be keen for example.

But if I overhauled the 5E fighter a lot of the late game stuff would be groughy forward eg 4th attack level 15, 3rd attack level 10. More save proficiency etc.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

But in the true perfect edition, there are no Champion Fighters.

While I appreciate the scathing wit, there really should be a simple Fighter option. It just needs to be actually, y'know, good.

But IMO there should be simple versions of nearly every class (in an ideal world, actually every class.) And complex versions too. Because "likes character archetype as a fictional concept" and "likes simplicity"/"likes complexity" are completely orthogonal things. There are people who want complex Fighters and simple Wizards. Supporting that should be a major goal.

Because there are a ton of people out there who would love to play Harry Potter, and find the D&D wizard...poorly supports this, to put it mildly. And there are folks who like both intricate/textured mechanics and swording things in the face. We've had inklings of both simple magic and complex martials in official D&D. It'd be great if that got a real serious, well-tested shot.

 

[Horwath]

But in the true perfect edition, there are no Champion Fighters.

Just have champions HD and Second wind turn into d12, and HP adjusted to that.

 

[Stalker0]

Start with 5e as now as your basic chassis:

• Major rebalancing of Spells and Feats (I don't expect perfect balance but when people can look at a spell like Mordenkainen's sword and instantly notice its flat out worse than many spells below it....something needs to give).
• Respect that fights are short, and therefore damage over time spells need to be balanced appropriately (aka much stronger than they are today).
• A more 4e monster design approach
• Bringing back skillpoints, probably using Pathfinder's 1e approach. I don't mind it simplier than 3e but there was a really fun customization there that 5e is lacking.
• Split concentration into the "can't stack with other spells of this type" element and the "take damage and lose the spell" element. In trying to combine these two elements into one mechanic its too much of a crude club instead of a scalpel, and really reduces the variety of viable spellcasting in 5e. Concentration is both one of the greatest and worse changes in 5e.
• Start looking at legendary/solo monsters reducing conditions instead of just outright killing them.
• Balance around a 1-3 encounter adventuring day, rather than this 6-8 encounter bs.
• Rework the monk, the sorc, and the cleric. The monk has problems, even if there are conceptual, but the million "monk sucks" threads out there should show you something is off. Sorcs don't quite fit their internal flavor, and clerics are insanely boring and de facto rely on spirit guardians to be worth a damn.
• Add some more conditions that weaken defenses rather than actions.... aka conditions that create tension rather than making a character suck. Something like "you take 5 extra damage everytime you take damage" kind of thing. Or the ongoing damage from 4e.
• Spend some extra rules space on classic "dungeoneering". Stealth as an example, I don't mind the natural language of 5e for many things but stealth is too powerful to be as vague as it....button that stuff up. There should be some chase rules, some notes about handling combats in a doorway (which is VERY common in some dungeon scenarios). How about a little more detail on standard illusions, give some more examples of when "interactions" would occur.
• Drop the VSM components, its jenky and tedious. All spells should just be blockable with silence, by taking away the focus (except sorcs), or by binding the caster's hands. Spells that don't need this should have very special notes in the spell description rather than me needing to look up the VSM of every damn spell. And lastly, call out specially spells that are casual. End once and for all the debates as to whether you can cast charm person on a person and they won't know your casting it, or can I cast X spell in the dark and not break stealth because its effects are "subtle enough". I'm tired of the debates around that, literally just put a keyword on spells that are "subtle" and call it a day.
• For the love of god throw in some ways to spend our money, proper magic item pricing is a good start.

 

[Horwath]

Also we do not need categories of weapons and armor.

all weapons can be in one category and all can be proficient with all weapons.

Martial performance can be measured via:
Fighting styles, Extra attack(s), attack riders(sneak attack, smite, various class bonuses), abilities that enable usage of Bonus action for extra attack, feats that augment attacks(SS, HWM, PAM, CE, Sentinel, Crusher, Piercer, Slasher, etc), basic investment in STR or DEX,

Armor can be measured only in min STR required.
No need for class proficiencies, or capping dex or having Stealth or other penalties.

Armors:
AC 11, min STR 10
AC 12, min STR 12
AC 13, min STR 14
AC 14, min STR 16
AC 15, min STR 18
AC 16, min STR 20
AC 17, min STR 22

small shield(buckler), +1 AC, min STR 10
shield, +2 AC, min STR 14

Some races(dwarves) can have cultural armor training in a way that their STR is 2pts higher for calculating what armor you can use.
Same would be for some classes/subclasses:
I.E. fighter and paladins, and some subclasses of other classes can calculate their STR 2pts higher for armors.

Not having min STR for the armor you are using would inflict disadvantages on all attack rolls, not being able to concentrate on spells and having all targets of your spells auto-succeed on their saving throws and having disadvantage on all STR and DEX saves and checks.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Just have champions HD and Second wind turn into d12, and HP adjusted to that.

So still nothing interesting and no reason to exist?

Sorry, no Champions enter the kingdom of good gaming.

 

[Horwath]

So still nothing interesting and no reason to exist?

Sorry, no Champions enter the kingdom of good gaming.

I agree that it is not nothing interesting in mechanics.

But the point of champion is to be very simple in mechanics(and in theory not underpowered).
To give starting players, and players that do not want too much mechanics in character a solid option to play.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I agree that it is not nothing interesting in mechanics.

But the point of champion is to be very simple in mechanics(and in theory not underpowered).
To give starting players, and players that do not want too much mechanics in character a solid option to play.

We need to start respecting new players in not thinking they are too dumb to operate Rage.

 

[Horwath]

We need to start respecting new players in not thinking they are too dumb to operate Rage.

I'm not saying that players are dumb, I'm for default feats and feat at 1st level.
But, there is a lot to learn to D&D as a new player.
Champion can get more abilities that are more "complicated" at later levels(6+).